Weinland Watch

Journal Covers Dean Discipline (Ambassador Watch breaking news on latest UCG scandal)

Tkach Loses Round One: The Fight Continues! (Ambassador Reports on the WCG’s intervenor status in an Episcopalian land-claims court case)

Coming Soon: US & Britain in Prophecy (As Bereans Did—looking forward to this one!)

“The Church” vs. “The Hippies” (Armstrongism: Beware of False Prophets exegesis on an AC booklet)

What the F%#k is Going on Here? (I Survived Armstrongism survives a round of attacks from diehard Armstrongists from AW)

Here is What Tony Campolo Really Said (Post-WCG Life and Theology: Felix Taylor talks about controversial comments from a cussing christian—sounds like my kind of guy)

Science Gone Wrong (Ironwolf — Robert McNally discusses the latest XKCD comic strip)

Moral of these articles and posts? I commend to you the following two links:

Ron, It’s Time. (Shadows of WCG)

Ron, It’s Time. (Don’t Drink the Flavor-Aid)

Let My People Go!/Ron, It’s Time (As Bereans Did)

My turn.

Weinland. You tried. Whether you were drinking your own Kool-Aid, or just handing it out, you played your hand badly. You painted yourself into a corner, and now those who were not members of “the scattered church” who you managed to suck in, are coming after you with tar and feathers—and the threats of litigation. The world is not the way it used to be, twenty-five years ago, and neither is “the scattered church”.

Trying to recruit those who had no idea about “the scattered church” and what it really means, was a bad idea. Because there are enough of us left out here who know the real truth about WCG and HWA and all the other acronyms that only Worldwiders know the meaning of. Recruiting (and baptizing) underaged children was an even worse idea, as I’m certain your legal advisors made clear to you when you revamped the church’s website.

No one is going to give you any more “coverage” beyond this. Your faithful few might cling blindly to your spiritualizing of all the thunders and the seals and the signs, but surely some of them are going to remember “If by Pentecost…….” Even if you no longer remember it yourself.

It’s time Weinland. Give back the money, whatever you have left of it, and stop preaching. Just as you said you would. You are true to your word in these things. OK? That’s what you said. It’s time. You have to either eat these words, or own up to them, but you can’t just go blindly ahead as if you never said them:

Finally, getting out of CoG-Land, which sometimes seems like a parallel universe unto itself, I offer my loyal readers the following link:

News and World Events

It’s been a slice people. But it’s time to move on now.

Thanks to Shadows of WCG for providing a full transcript of the first hour-and-a-half of the sermon here.

“Monday, I wasn’t very comfortable. Thankfully, I have a helpmate that was there with me. And she started quoting all kinds of scriptures and all kinds of situations to give me the encouragement and help I need to be refocused because I wasn’t having a good day.”

A sign that the missus is drinking the Kool-Aid as well? Or that she just doesn’t want the expensive lifestyle to stop?

“And so sometimes we receive the brunt end of some of these things. From family, from people you work with, on the job perhaps, my wife can’t get in and out of the bank sometimes without someone calling her in and talking about some of the things on occasion here, you know. Different manager, different ones (unintelligable) and stuff. They’re talking about it.”

I will repeat what I have said many many times before: I feel badly for the wife.

“Back in Erie, Pennsylvania. Because the battles we were going through then were preparing us for something later on I had no idea what we would be prepared for. The lying, the shenanigans going on in that particular area, the things that took place, and how hard that was mentally to live through some of those things.”

“And so some perhaps are waiting until Pentecost to see. Is he gonna say he’s a false prophet then? I can tell you right now the answer to that is absolutely no.“ Audio

“If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the US and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on aaaaall those interviews that I have held. To do less. Well. Would be quite insane.” Audio

“We are so puny. we are so small. You know, last year, at the Feast, if you counted everybody, maybe even some dogs and cats, uh, maybe 450. Total. Worldwide. You know, amazing. We’ve had a lot of growth since then. Which is exciting because of what God has done in that length of time. Inspiring and exciting to see things that take place. And I’m talking about children as well as adults in that.”

That is a smaller Feast turnout than even “w” admitted. Given that at least a hundred of those were most likely visitors (i.e., not regular members of any CoG or their CoG’s Feast sites were full), it looks like 300 is a fairly accurate number for the church as it stands now.

“And all this millions of dollars we have? If they only knew.” [LAUGHS.] “If they only knew. We hit over a million dollars at one point. But we’re way below that right now. We’re not there anymore because of all the monies we’re throwing into google, and everything else we’ve been doing.”

Any wonder the bank managers want to talk to the wife. They are probably trying to get her to separate her finances. Here’s my question though: If you were over a million bucks at one point, but you’re way below that now, where did that money go?

Does Daddy’s Little Bookkeeper have an answer for this?

“Clothed in sack cloth. So, people don’t even understand that because people take things physically. It’s talking about humility. And it’s not talking about humility toward human beings. Humility is about a relationship with God.”

No, you get to be an arrogant S.O.B. to human beings because that is S.O.P. for members of the Levitical priesthood.

“God doesn’t mince words. Says you want to hurt them in whatever manner you come up with, you’ll be killed. God’s not playing games. He’ll protect them for 3 1/2 years. And if he didn’t because of the things that are going to come to pass, they would be dead. Cause there are going to be plenty out there who will want to kill them. Amazing. Nice position to be in, isn’t it.”

Let me repeat this again. No one wants to kill the Weinlands. No one knows who they are. And of those who do, no one wants them dead.

“So in that sermon “It Has Begun”, we had addressed these verses toward the end and I said that, in that particular sermon, the time is now for the thunders to become far more pronounced and cause devestation in a far more pronounced and visible way.”

“Before the Seventh (and final) Seal is opened, the Seven Thunders will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them in the previous chapter should roar loudly in the ears of anyone who is willing to admit the truth.” [pp. 115, 2008: God's Final Witness]

1:09:55 - 1:10:04 RW March 22 Sermon: “Just like what we believed that just last week here. Oh last week? 18th.” [someone laughs] “Yeah. The seventh seal was opened………”

“From what is stated about the 1/3 of trees and grass, that’s later. that’s going to happen past. It’s going to happen after Pentecost. It won’t be before Pentecost either.“

“If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the US and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on aaaaall those interviews that I have held. To do less. Well. Would be quite insane.” RW March 29 Sermon “Three More Weeks” Audio

Update: J has now transcribed the last half-hour of the sermon. Here are the quotes that jump out at me personally:

“So, it’s weighed heavily on me to know that so many have sacrificed so much to support what is being done. Far above tithes and offerings. Normal offerings, I might add, to God. As I mentioned earlier, we’re wiping out reserves rapidly. And we’re going to continue to do so. We’re going to continue to do so, right through the summer.“

So here Weinland excuses the excesses and wasting of money, and exercises milieu control in an effort to get the members to start thinking ahead to the summer. Not Pentecost.

“So, I have thought about all this, and asked that question, what if. What if. That’s where I was Monday. oh. Bad feeling. What if. Because I’m true to my word in what I would do. If it comes to that point in time, and it was made very clear nothing happened this year, absolutely brethren, I would make it very clear and say it clearly. But again, I don’t believe it in any fashion, one bit, one iota.”

“If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the US and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on aaaaall those interviews that I have held. To do less. Well. Would be quite insane.” RW March 29 Sermon “Three More Weeks” Audio

“So if anyone who uh, gave above and beyond I just want to add this too - just so you can examine your place and what you did - because I know how the human mind is. Some gave offerings that aren’t normal. I hope - you know if there are some that are regretting some of that, that are having second doubts about some of that, I want to say something right now, real clear to you okay? I’ll return it. Those of you that have given $10,000, $20,000, $50,000, $80,000, $100,000, and more, because there are those of you who fit in those categories, above and beyond normal tithes and offerings. But you need to let me know before Pentecost. Thought I’d give a week. I thought no, Ill just say it until Pentecost. Otherwise, to understand, you are saying that you are in full agreement of those monies being used fully to be used whatever i deem necessarry because I am going to continue moving forward, putting everything into what we’re doing. That’s what I’ve been doing all along, that’s what I’m going to confinue to do. Okay.”

So in other words, Weinland is willing to return the money, but only if members meet his requirements (that they ask for it back before Pentecost). I ask again, what of those who are waiting until after Pentecost? They will now have no recourse, as per this sermon, legally or otherwise.

Update: First one and a half hours of the sermon is transcribed here.

Stream here or download here. I didn’t bother listening to the sermon this past Saturday, I needed a vacation from the end of the world.

Shadows of WCG has the relevant quotes and a sermon summary here. Highlights include blaming the congregation for wanting to see something physical, apparently the church has lost membership after April 17th, and the claim that the church has remained steady at 300 members.

The church officially announced it had 311 members nine months ago, before its last concerted push leading up to the great tribulation. Thus, I’m not really sure what to make of this Saturday’s claim. Given the indications, it is likely that number could be lower than 300 now, and Weinland is just rounding up.

Weinland also makes mention that all the money they threw into Google (which was guesstimated to have been upwards of $5500 a month) ended up breaking the church, and apparently has now ended up being all for naught, as it didn`t draw in the millions and millions of fresh fish that Weinland expected. Weinland then promises to return the tithes to any who have regretted giving over and above their annual 10%. Here’s the catch: Members feeling such regrets must contact Weinland before Pentecost to get their money back.

Is this a crafty lead-in to “plan B”? Or just more prevaricating on Weinland’s part? Is Weinland drinking his own Kool-Aid or just handing it out? Regardless of what is apparent to those of us on the outside, the church may be already starting its own end-game, with the promises of returning donations that people are expressing regret for giving. Whether or not Weinland is at the helm of it all, or is being carefully guided by his elders into a planned series of sermons claiming repentance, remains to be seen.

Mike, from Don’t Drink the Flavor-Aid, posts an appeal to Weinland’s daughter, allegedly the business manager of the corporation: “Audra, Give Back the Money”. Mike issues an appeal to Daddy’s Little Bookkeeper to return the money that has been cashed out of tax-shelter programs (for which the members are going to be dinged, come income tax time, if they haven’t been so already), and without being contacted by any members expressing their regrets in doing so.

If Audra Weinland is indeed (as has been alleged) the business manager of the corporation, and if she has been (as we are surmising, given the traffic statistics for the various blogs) the one monitoring the bulk of the Internet chatter, will she step up to the plate and do this? Doubtful, as she is clearly benefiting from the spoils of spiritual war her father has already accumulated from the faithful few.

As Bereans Did asks the pertinent question, “Who Are the 144,000?” For any members of Weinland’s group who may have believed they could buy their spot among god’s special chosen elect, they are either in for a nasty shock, or they are (shockingly) starting their own rumblings within the organization, and it has nothing to do with thunders or the great tribulation that hasn’t materialized. Also don’t miss the excellent rant from ABD, “Are You God’s Prophet or NOT Ron?”

Ambassador Watch, last but definitely not least on the list, has our Tribulation Update, and important news about another new blog, I Survived Armstrongism.

Never mind Rotten Ron, methinks Junior might be starting to get a little antsy: We, the “lost generation” are all grown up—and all the carrion crows are coming home to roost. Junior better get himself a bird-repellent umbrella.

I doubt if this interview, given its content and the “attitude” of the interviewer in question (who I personally would like to award a medal to myself), will be placed on Weinland’s site, just as the first interview with McConnell was not. The podcast can still be downloaded from the station here and when that link goes down you can get the file from here. Transcript of the interview portion with Weinland given below. As Bereans Did has an article on the interview here.

(more…)

Shadows of WCG says “Goodbye April”, and explains why all of us have been focusing so intently on Weinland and his prophecies. We have all been down this road before. We know the TRUE history of “the scattered church”, and it isn’t what Weinland tells you it is.

Good-bye April! Welcome May! Spring weather, new life blossoming, people getting out and active again after the doldrums of winter. Kiss your kids, breathe the fresh air, smile at your families! Look at the fresh new world around you with a fresh set of eyes. It isn’t as bad as the apocalyptic naysayers have told you. Matter of fact, this has been the quietest Great Tribulation on record so far. (Even the Great Disappointment of 1844 had a few more “rumblings” than this one did.)

“As Bereans Did” tells us about “Granddad and the Old Testament Law”, for an insight into how people get sucked into Armstrongism, and what happens to them when they do.

Is it me, or was the sermon on the 26th a rehash of every Last Day of Unleavened Bread sermon I have ever heard in my life? Trust me, it sounded like a sermon that could have been delivered without a single alteration, sometime in 1982. Download here or stream here.

Good news for those wanting to keep a close eye on Weinland and his group: The only key part of the sermon is the first fifteen minutes (this is what will be edited out of the sermon before it goes up on the church’s web site). The rest of the sermon was an absolutely classic WCG Days of Unleavened Bread closer.

Many many thanks and a lot of gratitude to Shadows of WCG’s “J” for transcribing the first fifteen minutes for me. I know just how mentally exhausting that actually is. Many thanks to “J”! The complete transcript of the first fifteen minutes is below. Ambassador Watch also has a comment on “The Weiner Effect”.

“J” has also written an open letter to Weinland and the elders of the CoG-PKG. I have serious doubts any of the elders will even read it; if they do, it will probably be with an eye towards how this is going to negatively affect their all-important cash-flow.

As Bereans Did, a biblically-based blog that is debunking Weinland from the canonical christian scriptures, also has a post about this sermon.

There is also a post at Don’t Drink the Flavor-Aid about this sermon. Bob Thiel, Living Church of God apologist who maintains the CoGWriter blog, also has a post about this sermon. While we disagree theologically, Thiel and I both have the same thoughts with regards to the CoG-PKG, that it is bad news, and should be avoided. When another Church of God group is warning against the PKG, that should be a sign heralding the end, in my opinion—the end of Weinland’s group.

But let’s let Weinland speak for himself.

“Well the Harrells, Laura, and I had a safe trip to Israel and safe return, and really be glad to be back in the USA, let me say. Uh, I don’t plan on telling much about the trip right now, I may mention some things as we go along here from time to time but I don’t want to take away from other things here in the sermon and so forth. But again I imagine I will say some things, uh, in some of the sermon from time to time, when it comes into mind when it has the appropriate connection.

“But we’re in Detroit today, Detroit, Michigan…Not knowing how things are going to transpire, how things were going to take place, where we’re going to be from one time to another, and uh, we are very unique in the sense that, uh, we go day by day and week by week, especially right now, so, anyway, um…

“I can’t stress enough how glad I am to get back here to the States! That part of the world is not the best part of the world to be in during the Days of Unleavened Bread and Passover season. And maybe I’ll make some comments later on, but anyway.

“I thought I’d mention here how I’ve been amazed at how God is working things out, and uh, we had a - close to double the traffic on the website last weekend, last Sabbath, especially, which we knew would be higher because of the rumblings going on, some of the curiousity, some of the different attitudes and so forth that are so prevalent out there, that we had a few thousand more coming to the website on the Sabbath than normal, so compared to the average before that.

“So some were really stirred up and curious over what would be said, obviously concerning the 17th, some had ears to hear, and obviously, there were a lot that didn’t. And that’s the way it’s always been, and those being drawn by God through the normal process obviously were able to hear it, when I think about what Daniel said when he said there are things we would understand and there’s only one reason and that’s because of God’s Spirit leading, guiding, directing and working with us, and that’s the only way anyone can really hear, spiritually, what was being given.

“So thought I’d mention here from all the reports we’ve been receiving back, it sounds like the Passover weekend last week was successful, in the many areas where brethren were able to come together, it’s always exciting that we can still do those things for a time here, and I am very excited by that, that we have opportunities right now, because many years ago we felt when the final three and a half years came that at the very beginning it would be nuclear weapons at the very start. That it would be a great war in the very beginning and great destruction from the get-go. And I made comments in times past wouldn’t it be a wonderful blessing if we didn’t start out that way. And quite candidly, even during the first four trumpets. It doesn’t affect the rest of the world the same way it’s going to affect this country, Canada, and some of the other Israelite nations, scattered Israelites nations in the beginning, and the longer that period is, the better it is. The longer it is until the fifth trumpet blows, which as everyone understands is when the ten nations come together in Europe, the more that’s postponed, the longer it is, in our thinking anyway, those things have already been mapped out long ago, it’s just that we don’t know what they are specifically, that the longer that is, the better it is. There’s going to be enough hardship in this world, in fact I don’t know how some of you felt last week but uh... as things get closer… it’s a horrifying thing to contemplate and to realize what man is going to have to go through…

“Because of the period we’re in right now, possibly next Sabbath or the Sabbath after that…

“Now that we’ve gone past the 17th, God has made a few things clearer, and um, going to be very much to the point about all this, and as everyone knows, we are not going to have a gathering for the Feast of Tabernacles this year, just as I’ve continued to say since this past feast, as I’ve said in the past as well, some may be able to get together in some areas for a little bit on the High Days or on the Sabbath, just as you are able to now. In some areas. So, we don’t know. We have to wait until God shows us. And that’s exactly how things are going to go all the way through this process. We’re going to know as we go along here a little more specifically, on some timing, I’ll discuss these things later on, again, we realize maybe some will have that opportunity, but I do want to be clear here that because of this last Sabbath, God has made it abundantly clear, and it’s also posted on the site, I wanna clear some of this up, I’ve talked about the 45 days and the 90 days, that was done on the James Whale show, primarily to give an idea here on the general timing of events for his sake and the listening audience, we see how quickly he got onto that one, I’m joking, he didn’t, he never could get it, toward the very end I think he finally got it, you know, when I was saying 45 to 90 days. I want to make it real clear. Nothing will happen specifically about the second trumpet obviously until after Pentecost… so we are going to have the opportunity to get together again on Pentecost, and we are planning that, so again, I can’t plan certain things until I know, What happened last Sabbath, I didn’t know what the 17th was going to bring fully, by any measure, but uh, it is very clear that we will not have anything happen on a massive scale to prevent us from coming together on Pentecost. So all the Elders in all the areas that set up locations, we’re going to use the same locations again as a whole, so I’d like to ask all the Elders to please make plans accordingly, and to rent the facilities as necessary because that is a Sabbath, and High Day the following day on Sunday, so that gives us another opportunity to do like we did last weekend. So we are going to have that opportunity again… We are going to have the opportunity to come together again on Pentecost.”

Compare and contrast this with the following quote from Three More Weeks:

“If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the US and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on aaaaall those interviews that I have held. To do less. Well. Would be quite insane.”

Shadows of WCG’s J recently showed me an article he wrote a year ago on Implanted Perceptions. A lot of it rings very, very true with me as someone born and raised in the Worldwide Church of God. A lot of the points made in the article sound as though they will ring true for members of many of the Church of God splinters that are out there. Give it a read. See what you think. If you’re ex-WCG, it’s guaranteed to at least give you a chill down the spine and a little twinge of “Remember when….?”

Remember when we believed we would never grow old?

Remember when we believed we would live in Petra for three and a half years?

Remember when we would watch the news and try to figure out how prophecy was unfolding before our eyes?

Remember when we would look at “the worldly” with a mixture of superiority laced with pity?

Remember when we would feel so “godly” if we were doing exactly what the church said? No matter if the church changed its mind from week to week, on the same items?

Implanted perceptions. They are a powerful thing.

J, over at Shadows of WCG, has your month-end round-up on the various splinters. Thanks for the kind mention of WW, and I have to say, he’s not the first person to suggest I focus my energies on the other splinters, once Weinland’s finally implodes (if it does indeed implode, as all signs are indicating it might). I don’t know. Dealing with this one has been exhausting enough!

And speaking of everyone’s no-longer-favourite False Prophet, still no word from the Non-witnessing Weinlands. Time, and the sermon tomorrow, will tell for certain what effect the leaking of “plan B”, combined with Weinland’s further spiritualization of the first trumpet on the 19th, will have on the few hundred or so remaining members of the sect.

Oh and let’s not forget the “speedily slow deaths” all of Weinland’s mockers are destined for. As Mike from Don’t Drink the Flavor-Aid pointed out on AW recently, given Weinland’s track record for prophecy to date, if we keep mocking him, we should all live as long as Methuselah!

It has been over a week now, since poor Ronald Weinland felt agitated on the banks of the Red Sea, and subsequently spent two-and-a-half hours the following day cursing his mockers, and pleading for “the faith and the patience of the saints”. No one has heard from either of the Weinlands since. The two end-time witnesses. Let me repeat that for you, just in case you missed the point.

The two end-time witnesses from the book of Revelation have been completely silent for five days.

Shadows of WCG’s J asks the salient and related question: Where’s The Witnessing? 

Now to be entirely fair, according to one commenter, Weinland prefers to spend the spring holy days in the Netherlands or Belgium. Funny that this should coincide with that other spring holy day, tax season, and Weinland’s alleged foreign accounts may very well be getting a top-up at the same time. Nothing like killing two birds with one stone, eh Ronnie?

Mike, from Don’t Drink the Flavor-Aid, informs us: Do You Yahoo?? No Salvation For You! Apparently the sponsored ads (paid for by the members’ tithes) are still working; only now the church-sponsored ads are not being returned in connection to specific searches for the name “Ronald Weinland”.

“Plan B” is looking more and more likely, as time wears on.

Daniel said, on March 19th, 2008 at 1:36 am:

The next time I will post something on this website April 17th- 23rd if we are still capable. And everyone can ridicule me if it doesn’t go down, but it will happen. Those blogs I left were not just for WW, but it was an attempt to begin to get people to start repenting.

Hey kiddo. I know you’re still out there. I see that you have been keeping up-to-date on the blog. It is past the 23rd now, and we still haven’t heard from you. I promise you, no one is going to ridicule you, because we have all been where you were before. We were all true believers, once upon a time, and we had to re-evaluate our lives when the kingdom we were promised never did come. No matter how many physical, financial, and emotional sacrifices we made.

I know you probably feel bad, you are disappointed, and upset with yourself, and questioning everything. This is a good thing, regardless of what you have been told, about “just knowing” that things are true. Asking questions is what will set you free.

I may be wrong. You may still be laughing at us, and willing to wait another 45-90 days as Weinland has instructed you to. If you want to post and tell us that as well, feel free. No one will jump down your throat, and I promise you I will delete anything that seems disrespectful to you, if you are still a believing member of the church. Tell us how wrong we are, tell us how we need to repent, tell us you still believe Weinland and his wife are the two witnesses in the book of Revelation. Say what you like.

Just please tell us whether or not you are OK. Please?