Weinland Watch

Weinland Watch

Who Was Ronald Weinland?

Who in the world was Ronald Weinland before he appointed himself one of the two witnesses?

Those who cannot remember their history are doomed to repeat it. –Plaque inside the Jonestown pavilion. Updated July 6.

This timeline is taken from Weinland’s own words, and comments made by ex-members who had inside experience with being members of Weinland’s, and his mentor Bob League’s, congregations in the Worldwide Church of God.

Born in 1949, the CoG-PKG’s “end-time prophet of god”, the self-professed “one of the two individuals referred to in scripture as the two witnesses from the book of Revelation”, Weinland joined the Worldwide Church of God in 1969 in Kansas.

Weinland claims to have attended Bricket Wood, the United Kingdom campus of Ambassador College. From his (unaccredited) degree from AC, he then went on to become a member of the ministry in the WCG.

Weinland got his start as associate pastor to Bob League in Cincinnati, OH, sometime around 1984. League has been described by ex-members as a tyrant and a ranting dictator, with everything based on the congregation’s submission to ministerial authority (i.e., League). This was the political atmosphere in which Weinland was “trained” as a minister.

Weinland was then awarded congregation(s) of his own in Pennsylvania, serving the areas of Franklin and Erie, sometime in the mid-80s. Weinland apparently did a lot of “fund-raising” while there: One member recounted being a part of “mass-producing” a large quantity of fruit baskets for sale by the congregation (in other words, sweatshop labour, and one wonders exactly where the proceeds went).

Another alleged incident in Pennsylvania with Weinland involved his using construction labour drawn from the congregation in Erie to build a home, which he then sold for his own profit. Weinland was transferred to Toledo, OH six months after this incident, presumably because of the anger and resentment in the Erie congregation over his having sold and profited from the house church members had built for him.

Reported in The Journal (a CoG-sympathetic publication that is lax in both objectivity and good journalism) May 26, 1995, Weinland is listed as one of the ministers fired from the WCG for not going along with the doctrinal changes imposed by Joe Tkach Sr. in December 1994.

Weinland was then a minister for two years in the United Church of God, and publicly complained in December of 1996, reported in both The Journal and The Servants News (a publication geared at disaffected Church of God ministers who still hold to Armstrongism). Weinland is reported in TSN as sending the complaint letter in January, and the date on the letter printed by The Journal is Dec. 27, 1996.

The key component of Weinland’s complaint letter to the United Church of God Council of Elders is in the opening paragraph:

“…just before that trip, I had also received my Pastor General’s Report from Pasadena which spoke of sweeping changes in doctrine. Since I was so wide awake and couldn’t sleep, due to agonizing over the questions of our future course, I drove the trip straight through. Perhaps that might not be considered wise to do so, but I did it anyway, because my mind was racing with questions, scriptures, prayers, doubt, frustration, and a whole lot more.”

(Weinland is speaking here of the lead-up to his dismissal from the Worldwide Church of God in 1994.)

“For somebody who used to sleep like a baby, I found I could hardly sleep at all. My mind was constantly racing and wouldn’t stop so that I could sleep.”

Note in his complaint letter to United, Weinland states that he resigned from WCG, while the list published in The Journal puts his name on a list published by Joe Tkach Jr. of ministers who were fired or retired.

“I knew the faithful tithes that paid me as a minister came from God. But like a parent who can’t go back to do a better job on his children a second time, we can only go forward — repent where we need to and change where we can.”

Weinland is here speaking of his departure from the Worldwide Church of God. CoG-PKG still demands tithes and special offerings up to or exceeding 30% of members’ income. They also demand “entrance fees”: The church requires a tithe before the prospective member can be baptized.

“One can begin to look at everything in a Pollyanna context. It isn’t a healthy thing to see all things through rose colored glasses, with a blind faith that God is somehow inspiring and doing all that is taking place in UCG. We should never forget that in our past, God has allowed people to make very wrong decisions and has allowed people to be placed in positions of administration that have caused great harm to the church.

Here Weinland is discussing his problems with the United Church of God splinter. It is ironic that Weinland is unable to see that he is essentially guilty of the same thing he accused the UCG council of elders of, twelve years ago.

“In addition, there are many questions concerning the “Statement of Activities” which is being reported in “New Beginnings” on a quarterly basis. This accounting method only gives data and is not informational. It is quite incomplete to be of real value to the brethren. This is especially true since they have no comparison they can make with the budget, nor are the beginning and ending balances recorded. How much money is actually in the bank? Is it true that the reserves are being depleted at a rate of nearly $500,000 per month? Wasn’t the estimate for reserves for April 1, 1997 figured at $5.5 million, but will instead be closer to only $1 million? These and many other questions need to be asked and answered.”

Ironic that Weinland should be accusing the UCG council of elders for misappropriating funds, when he quite clearly did the same thing himself, while in Pennsylvania under the WCG, and presumably continues to do the same, with the money appropriated from the tithes of CoG-PKG faithful (tithes, one notes, that are a prerequisite for baptism, according to the church itself).

(An independent full financial audit of the Church of God Preparing for the Kingdom of God’s books would clear up any vagueness as to what Weinland is doing with his peoples’ money. It has been stated online that Weinland’s daughter is the accountant for the organization.)

At the time that he resigned from the United Church of God in 1997, Weinland remained in Ohio, and a percentage of the members from the Toledo and Detroit congregations were reported by The Servants News as going with him. There was a small group in Meadville Pennsylvania, and a larger group from Cincinnati that Weinland had recruited, possibly outside of the United fold, who also went with him at this time.

These congregations were presumably the basis of what was to become Weinland’s CoG-PKG. However, one more split happened in these congregations (known as the Church of God, Toledo), before the PKG incorporated. More details here.

Wayne Matthews has been verified as a former minister of the Australian United Church of God. Matthews helped arrange the Melbourne leg of a speaking tour for Anglo-Israelism proponent Rick Sherrod in 1998 in that capacity. 

John(ny) Harrell is alleged to have come from United as well (after “a short stay”), but further verification of that information is ongoing. Email to United Church of God requesting verification of Harrell’s employment with them has not been responded to. He is purported to have been a long-time member of WCG (between twenty-five and thirty years) prior to his alleged association with UCG, but no information has been verified as to what he did prior to joining WCG. Harrell is alleged to have had a well-established home construction company in Macon, Georgia, for over 30 years, but that has not been verified.

There has been some speculation, mainly due to Weinland’s accusation of Rod Meredith’s refusal to acknowledge him (Weinland) as one of the two witnesses, and the “prophecy” that Meredith is going to die as a part of “the fifth thunder” that Weinland may have entertained a brief stint in the Living Church of God before breaking away completely. This speculation, according to one LCG apologist, is incorrect, as confirmed by the information above.

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Written by weinlandwatch

February 27, 2008 at 5:10 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

111 Responses

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  1. Ron weinland is running out of time.
    He states in his book that by Feb 2008 America’s economy will have collapsed, that has clearly not happend.

    Gary

    February 28, 2008 at 11:17 am

  2. Correct. The Canadian dollar has also been stronger than the American one. Weinland states that economic devastation will happen to the US (and Canada). Half of that “prophecy” is wrong going out of the gate.

    weinlandwatch

    February 28, 2008 at 2:10 pm

  3. Revised U.S. GDP numbers this morning show 4th Qtr. economic GROWTH — albeit slow, at 0.6%.

    Or do we have to wait for the 1st Quarter report (during Spring Holy Days) to prove Ron Weinland’s right?

    Of course, we don’t have to wait until then to know if a bunch of COG ministers have died….

    Richard

    February 28, 2008 at 4:09 pm

  4. The main “prophecy” I’ll be looking to call Weinland on will be this one:

    “As the leader of the Living Church of God, Roderick Meredith is mentioned as one of many ministers who will die as a result of the prophesied Fifth Thunder.”

    The passage in the book Weinland is referring to does not mention Meredith by name, but he does mention Meredith by name on the Interview Comments page at http://www.ronaldweinland.com.

    That certainly has at least one LCG apologist, and clergy from one CoG sympathetic to Living, freaking out.

    weinlandwatch

    February 28, 2008 at 5:44 pm

  5. I should clarify that last bit—Thiel and the other minister (of “an independent CoG”) are declaring to all who will listen that Meredith’s life is being threatened by this declaration.

    They’re over-reacting big-time, which is exactly what Weinland (or his handlers; I have my doubts as to Weinland being stable enough to handle administration duties without assistance) wants.

    Well, if the economy isn’t sunk by Saturday, I guess Rotten Ronnie is going to have at least one failed “prophecy” to answer for. Or is the economy one of the thunders? The seals are what Weinland is setting dates for (all of them, with the exception of April 17th, have been “prophecy in hindsight”, as Meredith is so fond of), the thunders can happen any time between now and the end of the great tribulation.

    *shrug* Don’t look at me, that’s just what the followers are saying. I’m sure they’ll find a way to reconcile the lack of fulfillment of this prophecy until April rolls around. They have bigger fish to fry, and all that.

    weinlandwatch

    February 29, 2008 at 1:12 am

  6. Yeah, I kind of thought the economy predictions were part of the seven thunders, not the seven seals. Weinland gave himself wiggle room with the seven thunders, and even the first six seals are “prophecy in hindsight”.

    It’s the definite date for the seventh seal that he’s set that has me worried.

    I’ll still be looking for Weinland’s “accuracy” about Meredith before April 17th though.

    Thanks for commenting!

    weinlandwatch

    February 29, 2008 at 5:09 am

  7. The 7th Seal date has me worried as well. The timing of the whole thing–dates set by Weinland– could result in some folks getting hurt.

    I know it could be a stretch– and maybe I am being presumptuous– but I don’t think I am.

    Weinland has made some scary statements in his sermons– not just in his books. He’s planning on sending out “instant messages, when the time is right” to his people.

    He’s also created what I sincerely believe to be a death pool of sorts. He’s already “predicted” deaths of COG splinter group leaders. And to me, from how he’s timed everything and how he’s written things– it sort of sounds as if he’s going to be responsible for this.

    He’s already said he’s an end time witness– and he’s said he’s going to have power to strike plagues on people and ultimately kill people that get his way– which is what the Bible says the two witnesses will do.

    He has also claimed that COG ministers have, in fact, “gotten in his way.”

    This is what scares me.

    It also scares me that if he does attemtp to hurt any of these men– will he use his “followers” to accomplish these tasks? Will he lead his “followers” to some kind of “mass” destruction on themselves, other people, etc?

    Weinland Watch: — You come from an old WWCG background. From your experiences, would a Ron Weinland charged attack on anyone be something indicative of the stuff that went on before 1994? (or after) I know the history of the WWCG, and how they conducted things, but I wasn’t there to witness it personally. Would this be something that could occur because of Ron Weinland’s pastoral background, or just because he’s a cult leader, with some serious issues? Not that it matters–either way I think Ron suffers from some sort of mental illness. But for years– and correct me if I am wrong– I have heard speculation that if a COG minister harmed another one in any way it wouldn’t suprise anyone.

    Any comments on that?

    I pesonally believe Ron Weinland wants retribution for his firing from WWCG and UCG. I also think that Ronald Weinland has a HUGE amount of hate for the Catholic Church and the Pope.

    Jimb

    February 29, 2008 at 9:03 pm

  8. “Will he lead his “followers” to some kind of “mass” destruction on themselves, other people, etc?”

    I don’t know about his followers, but the CoG-PKG is just BI enough that they might have some christian identity links (although I haven’t found any yet). As for harming themselves, that’s a worst-case scenario, but the potential is there. Weinland is absolutely cultivating an atmosphere of death among his followers.

    “From your experiences, would a Ron Weinland charged attack on anyone be something indicative of the stuff that went on before 1994?”

    No, around the time of the splits, it was mostly accusations of “That church is ungodly! Come to our church instead! We’re the church god has put his blessing on!” (Rinse, lather, repeat, for every splinter that exists.) Not that I was really “on the scene” after ’96 (when my family exited, we basically blanked out twenty years of our lives as though we’d never lived them), but I don’t recall seeing anything in the archives and the historical references where any of the splinter leaders said the others were going to die.

    Would this be something that could occur because of Ron Weinland’s pastoral background, or just because he’s a cult leader, with some serious issues?

    Definitely not the background, although, if attestations from ex-members who were in Bob League’s congregation(s) are any indication, Weinland’s background certainly didn’t help matters.

    “But for years– and correct me if I am wrong– I have heard speculation that if a COG minister harmed another one in any way it wouldn’t suprise anyone. “

    I never heard that. I think the splinter leaders like to harm each other politically (that’s why they submit their resignation letters to the CoG tabloid, after all, with all personal accusations intact). I don’t think any of them have it in them to physically harm someone else though, they’re pretty strict about those commandment things, you know! :-)

    Weinland, though, is an unknown factor because of his (likely undiagnosed) mental illness.

    “I pesonally believe Ron Weinland wants retribution for his firing from WWCG and UCG.”

    He may have been fired from WCG or resigned; the sources from which I got my information aren’t exactly reliable either way. He definitely resigned from United, because by that time he was getting too big-headed to “submit” to the church-by-committee madness that UCG is such a big proponent of. He got his parting shot in at them by revealing in the resignation letter that $4.5M had been misappropriated somewhere along the line (I think this was when Hulme was getting ready to split off.)

    “I also think that Ronald Weinland has a HUGE amount of hate for the Catholic Church and the Pope.”

    That’s all showmanship. You’ll notice Weinland doesn’t specifically state the name of “the great religious leader” who will “be under the influence of “Satan”, very powerfully so” on the 17th of April. He’s just cagey enough to hedge his bets like that, and let the membership draw the conclusions for him. That way he has complete deniability, if anything goes down.

    The thing with the pope, also, is a holdover from Armstrongism. We were taught that the RCC was “the great whore of Babylon” spoken of in the book of Revelation. Which is why it’s so easy for CoG members to go to the pope, when Weinland starts wailing on about “a great religious leader under the influence of Satan”. Without naming any names himself.

    weinlandwatch

    February 29, 2008 at 9:29 pm

  9. RW states that the physical happenings begin in April (aka the rest of the Pagans will finally be able to see this something)
    Now he could say that the buildup period you cant see…but he actually trapped himself here within the many radio interviews he gave.
    In one of his radio interview he states that he does not know when in April…
    And says something like it could be the beginning, middle or end. He aaaa….almost hints at going on to the next month…but that of course could be too haughty!
    During April (if not probably by now) he will feverishly try to find any major disaster that will occur in the world (either related or unrelated) , over-hype the Pope’s speech which of course only he and his church will be able to ‘truly’ understand and interpret…ergo then how does the world being shocked and horror-ed fit in here….I don’t know. So in this case many things will have to happen in a small amount of time which contradicts his gradual escalation tripe-speech he keeps babbling about.
    This should turn out very comical: The Pope turns into Satan while the stadium he gives a speech in gets flooded with water and splinter church members drown in the water (as he predicted) incl the tv crew(?) which immediately collapses the dollar value somehow which traumatizes the future elect president candidates and they quit the race to become the next president. So too many fill-in-the-blanks stuff going on here.

    Firestorm

    March 23, 2008 at 5:52 pm

  10. More than likely, come mid-April, the church will simply do an about-face, as they already have on the seventh seal.

    weinlandwatch

    March 23, 2008 at 7:07 pm

  11. Your timeline is incomplete. Please let me help you, as I was there in 1996 through to January 2000. Ron was a very different man then judging from what sermons he gave.

    In 1996, Ron annouced he was thinking of leaving the UCG (many people seem to think he came from Global or Living, but that simply was not the case). He spent weeks building his case for splitting (which was really just legitimizing his exit theology) in Sabbath sermons. The congregation was large, and it split. I remember we were in a rented hall south of Detroit for a holy day and the place was filled. Had to be some 300-400 people. Most of Toledo and a part of Detroit stayed with Ron. He actually made a convincing argument!

    Before we split, he brought in David Hulme, who IMHO wasted an entire day of God’s Sabbath to talk about United’s finances to us. Oh, he quoted facts and figures and the whole megillah until I felt I was going to bleed. But he couldn’t answer the questions that plague United to this day about what was being done with the money. So we took a chance, and split.

    We “hired” Ron as our minister by vote at $x thousand per year salary paid from tithes. This was NOT the COG-PKG. It was the Church of God. However, due to the fact that name had already been taken, we had to call it Church of God in Toledo (or something along those lines, I don’t care anymore). We had a very small website. Nothing impressive.

    He soon introduced the “18 Truths Restored to the Church by Herbert Armstrong”, and fell more and more into Armstrong worship – always talking about ‘trunk of the tree, trunk of the tree”. He went out searching for other ministers who were like him – telling us of whom he approved and disapproved. He also set up a congregation in Cininnati which we connected to by phone, and he would travel to on Sabbath if he could. We all became involved with a churh in southern-Illinois/Missouri called the Belleville COG. Very respectable group! Things were growing, we thought.

    Well, it all came to a head behind the scenes. There were rules set up so that Ron couldn’t get his hands on the money. Not that anyone distrusted him particularly, but we distrusted people in control of money – hey, we split from UCG about money, right? He wanted to start printing publications, and the church board wouldn’t go along with him. Even though we were a small group we had several hundred thousand in a church bank account. That built up and built up, but no one knew it but him and the board and whomever else was inside the circle.

    We went to the Feast of Tabernacles, as far as I can gather it was in 1999, with Belleville COG. It was a great Feast from the outside. But on the inside, Ron took all the credit to himself, upsetting many people who actually did the planning. He was drawing attention to himself. That was when the people at the top knew something was up. I wish they would have told the rest of us. But hey, we probably wouldn’t have listened anyhow. We are stubborn, afterall.

    Ron started giving sermons on how the minister is in charge, how God works through the minister, how God has a government and it should be followed, yada yada yada. you’ve all heard that song before. Towards the end of the year, he gave a “special sermon”. We were all to pay close attention. It was going to affect us very deeply. Well, he laid it all on the table and, to make a long story short, demanded we either follow him or get out. He even passed out a short survey which each of us had to fill out, one per household, to see what our attitudes were.

    At the end of the sermon he asked us all to stay while he went over the surveys. He came back after a long while and had a hand full of envelopes. He asked two of us to pass them out to the families they were labeled for. Not everyone got one. Both of the young gentlemen who passed them out got one. I got one. Inside were letters explaining how we were no longer members in good standing, based upon our answers to the surveys. The board members were disfellowshipped, however (all but the guy who ran the sound equipment, of course because he would be needed). We all had a good long time afterwards to decide how we felt, the room split itself right down the middle by ’stay’ or ‘go’. And that was the end of the day.

    The next day, I got a call from Mr. Weinland to tell me in person that he had misread my survey and he gave me the letter in error – I was now restored to member in good standing. Good for me. I told him I would be at church the next week, and we hung up. Hey.. what else was I supposed to do? I thought I’d never see the other people again.

    The next Friday I got a call telling me there would be a meeting at an old fella’s house called by the former board members to explain their side of the situation. It would be before services usually started, and would not be services themselves, and everyone was encouraged to go to Ron’s service afterwards. So, ok, I thought I’d go.

    Here’s the side of the story from the board members: Ron was not legally allowed to take the money according to the byrules of the church corporation. Ron very loudly and angrily accused the board of insubordination and etc by refusing to go along with his order to spend the money on publications. Ron had retained a lawyer and was actively trying to take the money. In order to do that, he had to fire the board and change the byrules. This he did by disfellowshipping them. The board said phooey on the money, this isn’t about the money, you can have it and whatever curse comes with it. If you want a more detailed explanation, search the Journal’s archives for late winter or spring 2000. There’s an article in there that’ll explain the whole thing.

    [WW's note: From the print edition of the February 2000 Journal: "A Toledo pastor disfellowships most of his board of directors, prompting many in the congregation to leave. The Journal interviews pastor Ron Weinland and two of the board members. See the print version of The Journal."]

    I decided, after hearing their side (and not that I’m easily convinced; I had personal dealings with Ron shortly before this where he absolutely crushed a church member and brought him to tears in my presence simply for asking a question), that they were credible in their story, and I would no longer attend with Ron’s group.

    We had a wedding to attend of a young lady whose family was split by this – half staying with Ron and half leaving. Ron refused to talk to us. He refused to shake my hand. He even tried to avoid eye contact. Then he left immediately after the service. He said it was to spare everyone else and make it a better night for them. I still have the email conversations between the two uf us saved, where I tried to tell him in brotherly love and humility where he was going, and how he told me I was filled with a spirit of pride and elevating myself beyond where God put me by trying to teach him.

    After that, we that he kicked out, divorced, started the Church of God – Toledo and are still here as a refuge to all who have been so treated and try to hold on. He went on some time later to form the COG – PKG from the website he retained.

    All I have said here is true, as best as I can recall, with God and several people as my witness.

    Constance_Dogood

    March 25, 2008 at 4:07 pm

  12. Thanks Constance, that helps “flesh out” the timeline significantly.

    weinlandwatch

    March 25, 2008 at 4:14 pm

  13. You’re very welcome, weinlandwatch. I am glad I could help.

    If you would permit me to babble on a bit, foolishly, I feel terrible about this whole thing.
    Ron says he felt betrayed, and that a spirit of idolatry was taking over everyone. ok. You know, I think that his heart started in the right place. He wanted to fix the problems he saw all around him. Don’t you all who read this and came from Worldwide, or at least didn’t you at some time, want to fix this mess or whatever part you could? It can’t be “fixed”. But his zeal ate him up when it turned to pride and he recklessly thought he could do of his own effort what only Christ can possibly do. Christ Himself split Worldwide for sins committed BEFORE HWA died! If there are eras, in my personal and not so humble opinion, Laodicea started in the late 1960′s. Men fought and still fight against what God did. God did it, that’s why it can’t be “fixed”. I think Ron didn’t see himself as lusting after the money, he saw himself as needing to do a greater work, a desperate work with limited time, and he was being stopped by little men without vision. But like Balaam beating his donkey, he wasn’t stopped by us and he wouldn’t listen to reason.
    You see, he wasn’t predicting doom for 2008 back in 1999. He was predicting doom “very soon, maybe next year” (meaning in 2000 and before). I heard him with my own ears from not 20 feet away. (Fear unites, and prophecy is a great tool for fear in the hands of a church dictator.) He came out later to say he never felt the Y2K bug was a real problem. That’s immaterial. What he said was stock markets, etc, would plunge and that was the beginning of the Tribulation. They recovered, his story changed, and here we are today.

    I was baptized by him. I was married by him. I don’t think either baptism or marriage are a factor of the man officiating, but by God who joins together. But they link Ron and me together in my heart. I hurt for him. How far a little pride can take any person down!
    Can I say he is just as much a victim of the Worldwide system for Ministry as the people he victimizes? They made college children, lacking both wisdom and experience, into leaders. What exactly did they expect would come of that? People call him a kook and a nut, sometimes I don’t catch myself and I say those same things, to my shame, but he’s an example not to be overlooked. WE CANNOT DO THIS OF OURSEVLES!! ONLY CHRIST CAN DO CHRIST’S JOB!! We can’t even save ourselves let alone anyone else. Pay 90% tithes and avoid every mollecule of pork and it won’t change that fact one iota.

    Several beloved members of my family are still with Ron and agree with him 100%. They wondered why he didn’t come out and say he was The Witness earlier. They say “If I don’t believe in him then I have to deal with the idea that God has not been leading me.” So sad! He hasn’t split my family, though. We should take some personal responsibility and admit we split ourselves by him. Shame on us. I still love them, and they still love me, and even though he forbids it we still talk – but shame on us (them and me) for not loving God more than this, for not grasping the light while it shines in our hearts, for not craving the truth more than air, for not praying and asking Christ to be the Head of all things to us.

    And so to every one who has followed a man in place of Christ who died for them (for what exactly is the difference between what Armstrong did in ’72 and what Weinland does today?)… when will we see this is how it always goes?! Can it do anything besides?? Churches have split since the first century over this same thing. Cursed is the man who trusts in man! The elders are helpers, not lords. God is a family, not a corporate organization. The Church is a spiritual entity, not physical. There is more to life than this life. And Christ is Head over all things to His Church. In the COG – Toledo we say, “Never again!”

    There is hope!

    Constance_Dogood

    March 25, 2008 at 5:21 pm

  14. Weinland Watch does not endorse the pro-Church of God content of the above comment. It remains here, as posted, as an example of the very rare, and very poignant, spirit of a truly “select few” in the Churches of God, whose hearts really are filled with the best of intentions, despite their ongoing attachment to their closed high-demand religious system.

    weinlandwatch

    March 25, 2008 at 6:18 pm

  15. I feel for you Constance. I am sorry. I too have been tremendously hurt by ministers and teaching from HWA and off-shoots from him. I have, more than likely, a Father that is ‘marked for death’ by RW’s teaching. I believe RW is a notch above even the 1975 debacle of HWA – that I also lived through. I can’t help but know that Jesus warned us about false prophets and the fruit that they bear in Matthew 7:15-23. The fruit of a man or woman’s life is proof positive of who they are and what they are made – chaos, confusion, pride and greed or humility and service. The fruit is there for all to see who are not blinded by fear and ambition.

    Marie

    March 25, 2008 at 7:00 pm

  16. weinlandwatch, I apologize for what no doubt sounded like a commercial for some COG. That wasn’t my intent. I just wanted people to know some COG exists that refuses to be like Worldwide was. Thank you so much for letting me rant a while.
    Actually, my intent was to be somewhat anti-COG in as much as God can’t be limited to any physical organization – you pick which. They’re all tax havens, nothing more.

    I’ve waited, and read all these blogs and all their posts, and will still read them, and said nothing until now because, mainly, I’m trying to move on. Let him do what he’ll do. And let those go with him who will go with him. The hardest lesson I’ve learned was to let go. I am no Christ and am powerless to change anything. I’ve done all I can.

    Now I’ve said my peace, and I thank everyone for taking it seriously, because it is very serious. And thank you, Marie, and everyone, for your kind words.

    Constance_Dogood

    March 25, 2008 at 7:18 pm

  17. No apologies necessary; if I had felt it was a “CoG commercial” it would have definitely gotten the ax. :-) I realized that wasn’t your intent, which is why the comment stands “as is”.

    I think we are all, no matter where we are in our journey out of “the church”, trying to move on. I am grateful you have said your piece, it shines a very telling (and truthful) light on the man who has now set himself up as “god’s end-time prophet” and “the spokesman for the two witnesses in the book of Revelation”.

    A large majority of religious believers are coming around to that concept, that “god” cannot be limited by a physical organization. I’m slightly more open-minded than that, in that what I believe is the infinite generative source of the universe and everything in it cannot (and should not, I believe) be limited by any religious belief system.

    But that’s my preaching quota filled, for several years at least. :-)

    weinlandwatch

    March 25, 2008 at 7:28 pm

  18. You probably don’t need me to tell you that in the old days, you would have been labeled a heretic and antichrist… right AFTER they hung me out to dry. ;)
    Who knows – I might make good leather!

    I would be so pleased, to my very core, if somehow what we’ve said here can be to the start of some healing. If even one person eventually finds some comfort, it was a great day for me!

    Constance_Dogood

    March 25, 2008 at 7:40 pm

  19. Oh trust me, I had to give my head a good hard shake, when I checked the traffic statistics yesterday, and the “pageviews” came up 666!!! :-D

    Seriously: I will happily be labelled a heretic! Some of the best thinkers in the world have been the most persecuted for their “heresies” after all. And I definitely don’t miss being afraid all the time, thanks to the religion I was born and raised in.

    You have a commendable and good heart, Constance. I wish that even a fraction of the other CoG members had the same kindness and good spirit as you demonstrate! :-)

    weinlandwatch

    March 25, 2008 at 8:06 pm

  20. Thank you, weinlandwatch. I genuinely appreciate your statement. But I should tell you I don’t deserve it. I have a little saying that goes like this “I blame God for my success.”
    Lord knows I tried to mess things up!

    Constance_Dogood

    March 26, 2008 at 1:16 am

  21. My family has been destroyed by Ronald Weinland. My husband, a loyal follower has financially ruined us preparing for Ron’s prophesies. I am afraid of what his next utterance will be because it so directly affects my family. You seem to know him well, do you think he is capable of harming anyone. Will he ensure his prophesy that COG ministers will die? I need help here.

    Anonymous Pleas

    April 13, 2008 at 1:22 pm

  22. I am very sorry that your family is in such a bad position. I wish it were not the case. If you email me at weinlandwatch@gmail.com I can give some options as to what to do and who you might be able to contact.

    As for Weinland himself being capable of harming anyone, Rotten Ron is fond of repeating the phrase “I don’t have the foggiest idea what is going to happen”, with regards to 17th April, when “the first trumpet” is supposed to sound.

    As for Weinland’s “prophecy” that CoG ministers will die, most of that was prophecy in hindsight (he used the deaths as an excuse, after the fact, to “prove” his predictions); as for the current CoG ministers who Weinland “petitioned” for the deaths of, last I heard, Rod “Spanky” Meredith was still alive and kicking, and if you check out the website of the Church of the Great God, Ritenbaugh appears to be alive and well too.

    weinlandwatch

    April 13, 2008 at 4:01 pm

  23. For the record, I am a practicing member of the RCC, not of my own choosing, but of my birth into a family of Catholics. No, I am not brainwashed into ALL the beliefs of the RCC…rather I question and constantly seek the truth of GODS plan for us all.

    Searching out GOD has led me in various directions, understanding other demoninations beliefs and practices….from the far out that Aliens will come from Planet X….to Judaism…Adventists….and others…its healthy to do this as you seek the Truth of the Word.

    I truly believe that GOD moves us into directions and causes actions we cannot understand, nor should at this point….and that journey brought me to Mr. Weinland’s web site, unfortunately.

    I read his book (Gods Final Witness) and was stunned….I cannot think of any other descriptor than STUNNED. What was I to do now? Why would a benevolent GOD do this to his people? And the biggest question….Why and with what authority was Mr. Weinland profoundly depicting in such specificity events and dates of the end? No man will no the Date or Time….

    I needed verification that what was espoused in his writing was “true” and the end was nearing. This brought me to various bible-based web sites, debunkers, and eventually to Weinland Watch.

    I can now say that I am truly enlightened and now understand the motivation of Mr. Weinland and his works through your thorough analysis. He is most delusional, bent on destructive rantings, and is twisting past events to match his “prophesy”.

    The blatant, unabashed and total misrepresentation of the WORD of GOD is a sin. Mr. Weinland will have to testify before the Almighty Jesus Christ for this false works. Pray for his sole and for those departed from this world who profess to be of GOD….false and pretentious prophets.

    His ministry will most definetly crumble and I feel very sorry for the sheep who have been mislead. There is one good that has come out of it for the flock…they will receive an absolute lesson from which to rebuild their faith in the WORD.

    I walk with open eyes and heart and welcome the day that we will all rise to gain the glory that GOD has promised.

    I am no longer stunned!

    Thanks Weinland Watch….

    John_the_Optimist

    April 16, 2008 at 1:28 pm

  24. I’m glad you have an understanding of exactly what Weinland is doing, John. Good luck and enjoy the rest of the week! :-D

    weinlandwatch

    April 16, 2008 at 2:22 pm

  25. Well…has anyone heard it yet? I’m going fishing….. :)

    John_the_Optimist

    April 17, 2008 at 12:02 pm

  26. I don’t any of you are being fair to Mr Weinland, i mean did you honestly read and pay attention to the books and the scriptures even when it says “No man and no angel in heavan, not even I (jesus christ) knows save my father, the day or the hour” it does go on to say that it ill be revealed in the end time, why is it so hard to believe that this is “THE REVELATION”

    I mean open you minds just a little and at least meet the man half way, and even in that he says…

    Im going to loosely quote him “IF THESE THINGS DO NOT COME TO PASS THEN I AM NOTHING MORE THAN A FALSE PROPHET” and he has vowed to admit that more over than really needed. So lets as a people give him… and if you will, God, the doorway, the pope thing was news worthy as he predicted years in advance, lets watch where it goes…, please hate me for being a real optimist, because for lack of a better statement (THIS WORLD IS SERIOUSLY FUCKED UP, AND IT NEEDS A CHANGE” and i am open to that change.

    DanniLiore

    April 18, 2008 at 1:58 am

  27. In reality, I’m waiting for something (Anything) to happen, and if a nuke goes off in the US… not to be morbid or sick or anything, but i’ll be happy (in a sense), i don’t want people to die, not in the slightest bit, but for the sake of a better world that Mr Weinland does speak of…

    Who am i to judge how god brings it about and when.

    And to be honest, Ron does give some sound and realistic conversation in the things that he is saying, most of you here make him out to be a raving lunatic when he is anything but.

    And if he turns out to be misguided, I’ll forgive him, because he has already stated before hand, that if what he says doesn’t come to pass that he is nothing more than a false prophet and will resign from ministry and never teach again, and that something very unheard of in this world of “crazys” so im going for the meet him half way (at least) way of thinking and give him the open door.

    DanniLiore

    April 18, 2008 at 2:29 am

  28. DanniLore, I feel very badly for you. I hope you can look back on the comments you have left here, whether it be in 45-90 days, or six to twelve months, and not beat yourself up over it. You have been suckered in by Weinland’s EOTW scenarios, which are the exact same scenarios as Herbert Armstrong played out in 1975, after he had already been preaching Armageddon in his lifetime, since 1933. (Armstrong died in 1986.)

    I hope you are just an interested bystander, and not a baptized tithes-paying member of the church. If you are, then I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you will be able to recognize the beauty, peace, and tranquility that exists in the real world, along with the “bad stuff” that YOU can change. Which brings me to my question:

    In your first comment, you say “(THIS WORLD IS SERIOUSLY FUCKED UP, AND IT NEEDS A CHANGE” and i am open to that change.”

    My question to you is this: What are you, personally, doing to effect that change? Tithing to the CoG-PKG is not an acceptable answer. Hiding in a bunker with three months of emergency supplies is not an acceptable answer. If you see something in the world that is “seriously fucked-up” as you put it, get off your ass and do whatever it is, however small that may be, that you can do to effect a small change.

    I am certainly going to be doing that, going forward.

    weinlandwatch

    April 18, 2008 at 2:49 am

  29. ladies and gentlemen,
    let this be an advice to all of you that if any “prophet” proclaims contrarily to whatever the Bible teaches, whether about heaven, hell, endtime, dont believe them. let the Bible be your benchmark.
    The real false prophet comes performing signs and wonders, but remember he’ll say or do something contrarily to what our Book teaches. so a prophecy come true isn’t necessarily a cause to believe them (liars).

    To God be the glory forever amen!

    billy boner

    April 18, 2008 at 8:47 am

  30. Why would you pity me, as far as religion goes, it’s of no concern to you. But I do aim to make the world a better place, I know I can only do so much, and you know, there is allot more I could do, and this world may be beautiful, but it not peaceful nor tranquil, you should turn on your television.

    I would love world peace and no I’m not sitting or getting ready to, hide in a bunker with supplies, but honestly, I know there are plenty of beautiful things in the world, I’m a big nature fan and what not and I really do like people lol.

    There are wonderful things on the planet to see and do.

    What about the people??

    The things that go on every day, that happen in the news, you can’t turn on a TV without a child having been raped of exposed to something or some has killed someone, or some disease has killed many… I do see the good things don’t doubt that, but the bad things have outweighed the good, and that’s true among people, no one has learned, from anything, priest molesting altar boys, people blowing each other up.

    And you, have become jaded to what’s going on… none of the bad will ever stop and as it has gotten worse, it will continue to get worse until there is nothing left, and even if what Ron says doesn’t come to pass… I believe it will in the future considering the way things have been going even before you and I were born.

    An do not forget my last statement

    “And if he turns out to be misguided, I’ll forgive him, because he has already stated before hand, that if what he says doesn’t come to pass that he is nothing more than a false prophet and will resign from ministry and never teach again, and thats something very unheard of in this world of “crazies” so I’m going for the meet him half way (at least) way of thinking and give him the open door.”

    As a human being, and a spiritual person, one who believes in god, I really believe god will eventually change things, all the world is not logic, just as people do and say silly and stupid things, just as television expression some of the craziest stuff… why should i not take a chance on this, you have judgments against this man and believe he’s just messed up, but… all he is doing is what many MANY, in the past have done, it’s not like he’s coming out a brand new bag, he has stated some good things and if anything he has been more logical than those in the past, more honest, and more accepting to the fact that some people may think he’s a nut… have you really listened to him without the preconceived notions you seem to have now.

    Why are you bashing the guy?? if you believe he false… then you believe that, and I’m not going to call you out, and tell you you’re wrong, i just, there are a ton of other minister you could bash more justly (Peter Popoff)…(Benny henn) not to be rude to them lol, but there’s so scandal there, at least this dude is preaching from “The Book” on a for real level, and is very collected about it.

    And as a side statement/question (for humor) do you know any prophets?? or any false prophets… I mean how is it supposed to work, or… do you know gods actual plan being that you enforce “For no man knoweth”

    DanniLiore

    April 18, 2008 at 11:56 am

  31. Ok i can at least agree with billy, but i haven’t come across anything contrary, and nothing that cant be explained “Biblically” allot of the bible is a mystery, whos has the right to say wether someone will be here to explain it or not, the bible does speak on an end time prophet, and the world has had allot of false ones come and go.

    DanniLiore

    April 18, 2008 at 4:23 pm

  32. Ronny boy said in a recent sermon that the devil was going to take over the pope and that that world look on in horror! Well, now he says the world wouldn’t notice! So, what is it? First the world will look on in horror; the pope was to be involved but I fail to see either happen.

    don

    April 19, 2008 at 7:32 pm

  33. The second witness has been named. It is his wife Laura.

    Anonymous Pleas

    April 20, 2008 at 12:06 pm

  34. Correct. Info here and here.

    weinlandwatch

    April 20, 2008 at 2:06 pm

  35. Cuckoo for Cocao Puffs…has anyone turned this nut case into Homeland Security, FBI, CIA….???? Ronnie has enough bravado to actually try to cause somethig extreme…and point to it….someone needs to check his house for dirty bombs, et al….

    One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest….watched too many times….

    The Sky is Falling Again

    April 22, 2008 at 1:56 pm

  36. As an ex minister, I just wanted to sya to Dannilore, that is right for people to pity those who are being led away from the Lord. I only recently found Weinlands websites, and already I can tell that what he has started is very cult-like.

    Interestingly enough, I have noticed that people here tend to quote scripture. However, almost all of the scriptures quoted are the “big” ones. Very few people actually know many of the smaller prophecies. For one thing, it says that when the end times being, the world will be worse than Soddam and Gamorah. While I will freely admit that many parts of the world are bad, they are not yet that bad. Imagine walking into a town and being asked by a stranger to come into his house to spend the night. Then imagine that as dark begins to fall, several hundred people begin to gather infront of that house for a party, and they all want you to come out so they can rape you and pass you around. Your host (he is mental too) offers them his own daughters to satisfy them sexually, but they would rather have you and your comrades. By the way, in this scenario, you are a man and not a woman, so you will literally get it, in the end.

    This is the synopsis of S&G from the old testament. Travelers would stop in the town only to be waylaid by the town’s people. It says that people were so scared of that place and had been so hurt by that place that their cries for mercy rose to the heavens to be heard by the Lord God, and he investigated it personally.

    While I realize that many areas of the world are bad, they are not that bad yet, and so the end times cannot be here just yet. Though I do not believe them to be too far away.

    There are many other prophecies that must come to pass before the end times will occur. Anyonne who says otherwise is calling Jesus and John the dreamer a liar.

    Another prophecy one is that there must be peace in Jerusalem. As of yet, I have not seen any peace there. Also, the temple of David must be rebuilt. Currently, the Dome of the Rock, the Muslim temple is still there, and while many of the preparations to rebuild the temple of David are ready and in place, until the muslims make peace with the Jews, the temple will not be rebuilt. According to revelations these must happen before the end times.

    One more thing. Currently Ronald Weinland is on tour in Israel. In his blog he mentions how incredible it is to witness the people who have followed God all of their lives. I just thought that I would mention that either he is mislead or he is lying because having talked with a Jewish-Christian minister(a convert to Christianity from Judeaism) my understanding of the Jewish cultures is totally different. He mentioned to me that the large majority of Jews no longer believe in God. They treat Him as if he was nothing more than a myth.

    I write this not to attack you, but simply to make you think about your following of Mr. Weinland. He has made a number of prphecies which have not come true and according to his latest blog, he has instead of admitting that he was wrong, decided to give reasons why his prophecies were changed. One of these prophecies was that the US would be subject to a major attack in April. April is almost over and nothing out of the ordinary has happened that I know of. In the old testament days, if a prophet of God was wrong even once, he would have been stoned to death. Being absolutely 100% right was how the people knew that the prophet was truly annointed by God.

    I have studied the cult (not to be confused with the occult) for many years now, and there are a number of very cult-like symptoms I see not only in his methods, but also in the responses of his followers.

    Please consider what I have said.

    jac5167

    April 24, 2008 at 3:47 pm

  37. ” even though he forbids it we still talk “- Constance
    Scientology says that non believers are disruptive persons and should be avoided at all costs.
    Islam says non Muslims are not to be trusted and a good Muslim will not associate with them.
    Jesus says love your enemy, turn the other cheek.
    Notice the difference?
    When a person talks to God it is called prayer. When God talks to you it is called schizophrenia.

    ciccio

    April 24, 2008 at 8:19 pm

  38. jac5167, if the PKG seems like a cult to you, that is because it is descended directly from the Worldwide Church of God, for which Weinland was a minister for many years.

    weinlandwatch

    April 24, 2008 at 11:30 pm

  39. jac5167,
    Can you tell me more about why you think PKG is cult like and describe symptoms for me. What can you expect next from a cult like this who are being so blindly led by this man. Is there any chance of mass suicides? I saw a special on cults on National Geographic and all of the groups who ended up committing suicide swore that it was once completely against their beliefs.

    Anonymous Pleas

    April 25, 2008 at 12:18 pm

  40. Hi Anonymous Pleas,

    I know that when I initially started the blog, the concrete date-setting raised some red flags for me, and made me consider that there was a possibility, based on what Weinland was saying about “last-minute instructions” being issued, and that the Great Tribulation was supposed to start on April 17th, that they might pull some kind of “end-time stunt” like Heavens Gate or Solar Temple.

    However, it is looking more and more likely now that Weinland (or the church itself, as Weinland may no longer be involved) will NOT order a mass suicide, and even if he did, I do not think he would have very many takers, amongst his three or four hundred followers. (They apparently are not kidding when they say the church is very very small.)

    The area elders have been given “leadership” of their various congregations as of March 29, and there is a backup plan that has been suggested (and leaked) by insiders to the church that look like they are planning to try and keep the gravy train going for as long as they can.

    This suggests that area elders will NOT do anything drastic, generally speaking, since that would mean doing away with their only income source at the moment.

    The point has also been made elsewhere that PKG members revere the ten commandments, particularly the sabbath-keeping one, and “thou shalt not kill”, which is why any kind of mass action on the part of the members seems highly unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely.

    I would not rule out the possibility. But if they were going to do it, the time would have been around Passover, when the Great Tribulation was slated to “begin”. As that has now been extended (by 45-90 days or six – twelve months, depending on which church sources you choose to believe), unless one or two of the members are very very paranoid, and reading stuff into the news that simply isn’t there, AND wish to ignore the commandments do not kill (including yourself), it does not appear to have a high probability.

    That said, the silence of the Weinlands themselves, and the lack of Internet activity by the members of the church is somewhat disturbing.

    weinlandwatch

    April 25, 2008 at 12:30 pm

  41. I agree. There has been a big hush among members who normally wanted to preach your ears off. As far as the size of the group I know there were at least that number (400ish) followers at the last Feast of Tabernacles with a supposed large influx of baptisms over the past year. How large I don’t know. More widespread than big numbers I think.
    I am not putting anything past this group. The people I know in it are clearly brainwashed. They are doing things I would never have believed they would do. I do not put a limit on how far they will follow this man. I hope it ends soon. Every time a new date comes I get my hopes up that people will wake up, then it passes and is somehow explained on a “spiritual level” that of course I can not see. I don’t know what it will take for them to wake up.

    Anonymous Pleas

    April 25, 2008 at 7:23 pm

  42. AP: Does the 400ish figure you mention include children? If so, could you refine your estimate the number of actual tithe-payers? Thanks.

    Ekimks (Mike)

    April 26, 2008 at 3:10 am

  43. FWIW, “w” claimed on the IW forum that there were 500 in attendance at the Feast in 2007. Likely that number would have included “visitors” (from other groups) as well as children. As for actual members themselves, the church held steady around three hundred (or so they were telling people) for a number of years. The last concrete number that was announced was 311. That was prior to the spate of defections that occurred after the 17th, however.

    Also, given that underaged teens were being baptized into the church up until very recently, likely these numbers do include children. While they are no longer baptizing underage children in, the underage children who were baptized before are still members. So the church could likely be between three and four hundred members. That is including family mermbers, elders, etcetera. They really aren’t kidding when they say it’s a very small church.

    weinlandwatch

    April 26, 2008 at 3:20 am

  44. Yeah, I realize that attendance figures reported by the various CoG’s generally include the superfluous (i.e. those who don’t pay tithes). The more the warm bodies sitting in the metal folding chairs, the merrier. Been there, done that (sore butt from those chairs).

    Just looking for a general impression from someone who was actually there at last year’s feast. To try to see how many were actually making income and paying tithes (10%, 20%, maybe retirement savings, etc.)

    Ekimks (Mike)

    April 26, 2008 at 4:57 am

  45. I can’t tell you actual numbers of tithe payers, but I was there at the last FOT. As far as I know, there is no record of anything made privvy to members. There has been a small influx of newly baptized members with no previoius COG association who have stumbled across “the book”. I would love to know actual numbers and what Ron is worth. I have to believe it is millions. Many have cashed out their retirements and of course tithed on this. Is there any word from Ron yet, I know he is back home and still “in charge”.

    Anonymous Pleas

    April 26, 2008 at 11:42 am

  46. Anything new happening?

    Anonymous Pleas

    April 28, 2008 at 12:00 pm

  47. There is a new discussion board that has been set up by Shadows of WCG, specifically to discuss the PKG, its beliefs, ministry, and related topics.

    weinlandwatch

    April 28, 2008 at 3:07 pm

  48. Constance and WW
    This site has brought me comfort. It is comforting to know I am not alone out here. It helps to hear others talk about how crazy this stuff is because I have been living it for way too long. Thank you.

    Anonymous Pleas

    April 30, 2008 at 11:34 am

  49. No you are definitely not alone out here in “the world”. There’s me, there is Ambassador Watch, Ambassador Reports, Shadows of WCG, there is Robert McNally’s blog, As Bereans Did, Don’t Drink The Flavor-Aid, Armstrongism: Beware of False Prophets, Life After WCG, the Two Witnesses Forum discussion board……..As I’m sure you can see by now, the list goes on and on and on and on!

    Weinland’s group may be smaller than WCG used to be way back when, but there are enough of us out there now who are the lost generation of WCG and the changes, that we can and are having our say about the few remaining Armstrongist splinters that are left.

    weinlandwatch

    April 30, 2008 at 3:31 pm

  50. Sorry Anonymous Pleas, but I have been away from the computer for a while now.

    What you are asking about cults is not an easy question to answer, insofar as what comes next, or what are the characteristics of a cult. There are actually a number of signs that depict cultism, but the most common, is something called compartmentalization. What this basically means is that a person has two pieces of information. When compared, each piece contradicts the other, something any free-thinking logical person can see. However, a person who compartmentalizes believes them both to be true, and never confronts their own beliefs.

    A good example of this is the Jehovah’s witnesses. Joeseph Smith their founder claimed that the Lord had revealed to him that the rapture was going to happen in the early 1900′s. Obviously it didnt happen but the Jehovah’s witnesses still claim that Joeseph Smith and his early teachings are infallibe. Joeseph Smith also lied in a courtroom while under oath before the Lord God proving that he was not a reputable person, and yet the Jehovah’s witnesses still hold him in high regards..

    Probably the second most common characteristic of a cult is word usage. No I am not talking about “Sister” or “Brother”, but rather somethign more subtle. The mormon’s an example of a very large and successful cult use the words “Christian”, “God”, and “Jesus”. But they define those words differently than most outsiders do, and of course this is where the compartmentalization sets in. Mormons define Christian to be everyone who believes in God basically like we do, but then they use the term “Real Christians” to describe themselves. Also, they define Jesus as the son of God literally, as in God the Father came down and had sex with Mary and Jesus was born. (Brigham Young – Journal of Discourses) Their definition of God is actually to complex I think to really go into, though they do believe in a Mother God just as they believe in a Father God. They also believe that MotherGod and FatherGod had sex to create all of their “offspring”. At one point they taught that Adam was God. OK enough of definitions. I use these examples because it is important to remember that just because a mormon says “praise God, hallelujah” doesntmean that they are praising the one true God. This is important because there might be other words that they have compartmentalized and/or redefined.

    So did I just open a really deep can of worms?

    The problem with describing the cult mindset is that it is so detailed and complex that often people mistake non-cults for cults. My reccomendation to you, if you want to learn more about cults is to find a book called “The Kingdom fo the Cults” by Dr. Walter Martin. Unless you want to become a scholar on cults, I wouldnt purchase it, its a deep read and somewhat pricey, but if you can find a copy to borrow maybe from a library or church, then read the first couple of chapters where Dr. Martin discusses the characteristics of cult behavior and cult followers.

    When dealing with followers of a cult, you have to be patient. You are not dealing with them, but rather their beliefs, and a person’s beliefs are among their most sacred posessions simply because this is how they define the world around them. The first step as always is to pray. The power of anything is insignificant next to the power of the Lord. Secondly, but just as important, you need to study the cult and familiarize yourself with it so that when the time is appropriate you can make a very sound defense against the cult and its teachings. In the case of Weinland, the biggest thing to point out is how often he has been right and wrong in his prophecies. According to the bible, God is unchanging, and any one who claism to be a prophet will have the sign of a prophet and that si that he will never be wrong. Applying that to Weinland is simple. If he makes a prophecy that does not happen exactly the way it is supposed to then, he is not from God. If he claims that God changed his mind then remember that God does not make a statement and then retract it.

    jac5167

    April 30, 2008 at 6:40 pm

  51. I should have read that one b4 I posted it. Lots of grammatical errors. Sorry everybody.

    jac5167

    April 30, 2008 at 6:43 pm

  52. I would say that jac5167′s take on cults is fairly accurate, and yes, there are examples analogous to, but not exactly the same as, the Mormon examples they provided.

    Absolutely WCG, and all of its splinters have their own language and buzzwords (another term you will hear when studying about cults), i.e., “How were you called to the truth?” or “When were you first called to the truth?” (Meaning when did you first see the World Tomorrow, read The Plain Truth, etc.), and “we are god’s true church” (which each one of 600+ splinters of WCG claims that they are), and “the chosen elect” (the members of “god’s true church”), and so on.

    My last comment in response to jac5167′s post is, that Walter Martin is no longer a reliable resource for Church of God groups; Kingdom of the Cults rescinded Worldwide Church of God’s “cult” labelling when Joseph Tkach Jr. made the outward appearance of bringing the church in-line with protestantism (which you will hear referred to in CoG circles as “the apostasy” or “the great apostasy” or in the case of RCG, “the falling away”).

    Members who have subsequently exited WCG even after its public changes have publicly criticized WCG (Jesse Ancona is one such member) for continuing to use cultic practices, and for the fact that oversight and financial resposibility is still missing from the WCG. (Congregations are still expected to send money in to Headquarters; although individual members are no longer mandated to tithe up to and beyond 30% of their income in some years, church propaganda still encourages members to give 20% or more.)

    Since Martin is no longer following the WCG, the church is now completely underground, insofar as being held accountable for the way it treats its members (and any critics).

    Other than that, other books I would suggest reading would be any by Lalich, or particularly any of the books detailing the Branch Davidians; David Koresh’s sect actually branched off from the Church of God 7th-Day, which Worldwide Church of God came from as well.

    weinlandwatch

    April 30, 2008 at 6:56 pm

  53. so he said that somting was happening on april 17? it didnt and its now about 9 hours to may and NOTHING MAJOR HAS HAPPEND AT ALL. so what is this 90 day thing or we have to wait to see?? DID HE SAY ON THE 17TH there was supposed to be somthing huge or not, do we have to wait 3 weeks or 3 months or a year to prove that this ass is a liar or has that already been comfirned since nothing has happend in april?

    odawg

    April 30, 2008 at 9:45 pm

  54. srry bout the spelling

    odawg

    April 30, 2008 at 9:46 pm

  55. so did we catch him in his lies or not

    odawg

    April 30, 2008 at 10:00 pm

  56. RW Sermon April 26 “The Passover Part 2″:
    “I want to make it real clear. Nothing will happen specifically about the second trumpet obviously until after Pentecost… so we are going to have the opportunity to get together again on Pentecost, and we are planning that, so again, I can’t plan certain things until I know, What happened last Sabbath, I didn’t know what the 17th was going to bring fully, by any measure, but uh, it is very clear that we will not have anything happen on a massive scale to prevent us from coming together on Pentecost.”

    Compare and contrast this with the following quote from Three More Weeks:

    RW March 29 sermon “Three More Weeks”:
    “If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the US and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on aaaaall those interviews that I have held. To do less. Well. Would be quite insane.”

    Link (audio excerpts).

    Does that qualify as “catching him in his lies” for you OD?

    weinlandwatch

    May 1, 2008 at 2:08 pm

  57. Sounds good to me.

    I did not know that Kingdom of the Cults had done that. I guess when Walter Martin died, the book started to die with him. However, unless the first few chapters have changed, the book itself is still a good resource for understanding cult behaviors, even it it doesnt specificy the WCG as a cult. I have a copy that is about ten years old, and I think the first chapter is on cult behavior and characteristics of the cult mindset. In reality that was the information that is probably the most important. Dont you think?

    In truth I really dont know much about the WCG, nor do I really care to. My reasoning is simple, the best defense for a Chistian is a good solid understanding of the Bible, Jewish history, and most importantly a strong relationship with the Lord. Even in spiritual battles knowledge is power. Probably the biggest mistake people make is that they fail to really study and test what it is that they believe. To an extent, even Christians do the same thing. Some make comments about drinking being a sin, but when asked where drinking is classified as a sin in the bible they cannot, yet they staunchly cling to their beliefs. They are just spouting off what they are told in church without really studying the why’s and wherefore’s. Can anyone say compartmentalization here? But I digress, this is not supposed to be a sermon.

    I will be interested to see what Weinland does next. Will he be a man of honor and stand down or will he find other ways to cover up his lies.

    jac5167

    May 1, 2008 at 3:07 pm

  58. Oh let me clarify somethign I miswrote….first line of the the second paragraph does not jive with an earlier post…If the WCG begins coming to my door then I will most definitely study their practices not as a defense for myself but that I would be able to discuss with them on their terms the fallacies of their religion.

    Our neighborhood is however fairly well covered by the missionaries of the JW and the LDS which is why I use them in most of my examples. Oddly enough almost every household in the area is a hispanic family and staunchly Catholic.

    Wouldn’t the Branch Dividians be classified as an Apocolyptic cult? I wonder if Weinland and/or the WCG could be classed the same way?

    jac5167

    May 1, 2008 at 3:20 pm

  59. Indications are looking likely that Weinland will not be responsible for his own end-game.

    Yes, Weinland and the WCG are/were absolutely apocalyptic closed high-demand religious groups. Therein lies the danger, in my opinion.

    weinlandwatch

    May 1, 2008 at 3:22 pm

  60. Did anyone see the special on National Geographic channel about the Strong City cult? It was so powerful. Good Morning America had an ex-cult member on this morning. There sure is alot in the news right now about this insanity. Thanks for all the info. I really feel knowledge is power and I do need it to get through this. I continue to be amazed that as I present contradictions to PKG members they explain it away. We are talking some highly intelligent people here! Thanks WW for all the resources. I really need them. I follow the Shadows site daily to learn the latest. Sad that my life is so affected by the utterances of one man! That special on the Strong City cult repeats on National Geographic Channel on May 7th at 10pm, I highly recommend everyone watch it. Thanks to all of you again.

    Anonymous Pleas

    May 2, 2008 at 12:42 pm

  61. So let me ask you this. If or when Ronald Weinland is proved to be a false prophet does that mean his interpretation of the bible is wrong and we should all just ignore what he says? Do we continue to beleive in what ever religion we have had up to now until the real end time prophets show up and will we beleive them when they do? Ronald may or may not be one of the end time prophet but there is one thing that he says in his book that is 100% correct and that is that Satan has done a fabulous job of confusing everyone.

    confused

    May 3, 2008 at 4:29 am

  62. my comment is not here why was it deleted?

    Jerry Connelly

    May 3, 2008 at 4:43 am

  63. Confused:
    If you were given a bowl of Cheerios that was 50% mixed with rabbit turds, would you spend the time picking out the Cheerios or would you throw it in the disposal and get another bowl of Cheerios without any rabbit turnds?

    Ekimks (Mike)

    May 3, 2008 at 11:49 am

  64. I’m with Mike. The CoG apologists here might accuse Mike and I of “throwing the baby out with the bathwater”, but as somebody else pointed out on AW, the bathwater is filled with maggots and that baby has been a bloated, floating corpse for a good little while now.

    weinlandwatch

    May 3, 2008 at 1:53 pm

  65. Ok I am by far not a member of the COG but (no offense) I am a believer. No I dont wake up every morning praying to god, I dont go to church on sundays and swear. But, I do study, my thing is that what person on earth is not interested in ” THE END OF TIME”. Good morning america did a thing on this the other morning and stated that people are googling GOD and of course the end. Me yes I googled the end of time and came across ron weinland. Seeing in that of his biography nothing of his is actually accredited and the devil will quote the bible. Im not saying he is the antichrist, but I will say his book the final witness did catch my attention. I dont believe in religion. I just believe. Nothing I see that is wrong with it, before I never heard of ron wienland. Now I hear of Ben Ammi and all these other so called leaders of GOD. But what real “PROPHET”, is going to outright say he is a prophet of god. What real christian god fearin man tells you that your opinion of a church or a pastor, not welcomes you into a church or member. Last I knew you didnt have to be a member to worship god or or ever go to heaven or hell in that matter. I knew all you had to do was believe and walk in the likes of god. Some things I have to admit Weinland is right about, but the whole “Im gods witness, one of his last final prophets.” THATS BULLSHIT! If you are a down right god fearing BELIEVER. ANd you know in your heart that you try to live by god, not by some pastor then by all means, there is your ticket. God knows if you mean what you say and do in your heart. You will be judged…but that is for god to do. Not some damn Ron Weinland or Ben Ammi or who ever else thinks that they can predict the end of time. People need to wake up and be more self concious of all these damn false protesting preachers. All you need is a bible, a heart and the love for god. The rest is really up to you!!!

    Michelle

    May 3, 2008 at 3:28 pm

  66. My goodness you guys are graphic however I do think I’m picking up what your laying down but what about my second question? How will we know the real prophets when they come? Throughout history we have been plagued with false ones so how are we to trust the real ones?

    confused

    May 3, 2008 at 3:38 pm

  67. Read his word, trust his word and Im sure through god alone he will show it to you, Not ron weinland, not ben ammi, not nostradamus, not Billy Graham. Why is everyone so panicked with looking for these prophets?

    Michelle

    May 3, 2008 at 3:41 pm

  68. To confused, I think the point we are trying to make is that there are no real prophets. If there were, James Randi would be mighty poor right about now.

    weinlandwatch

    May 3, 2008 at 3:42 pm

  69. Here is one for all of you! We see santa clause at ever mall in the united states…but which santa is real? LOL

    Michelle

    May 3, 2008 at 3:44 pm

  70. It begs the question. Are prophecies being fulfilled concerning false prophets because we are living in the “Last Days”, or are we living in the “Last Days” because prophecies concering false prophets are being fulfilled?

    The “church” in whatever appearance is plagued with power seekers elevating themselves to positions of ultimate authority – the defintion of ‘lawlessness’.

    Is this because the foundation has been laid these last few decades by writers and teachers, or because the ‘spirit of lawlessness’ has arisen in the hearts of men?

    The capacity of the human mind for self deception is incredible. Even the ‘very elect’ if it were possible may be deceived.
    or as Paul Simon wrote “the nearer my destination, the more I’m slip sliding away”.

    Early in my own christian walk (33 years) I experienced my own brief dance with the intoxicating delusion of being one of the two witnesses. I gratefully escaped the mindset and have never forgotten how readily one who seeks prophetic revelation opens their self up to ‘deceiving spirits’.
    Still God seeks those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth. Spirit AND Truth!

    I remember listening to the Armstrong radio broadcasts as a kid in the late fifties and being mesmerized by the sheer quantity of facts. Most seekers are similarly carried away by such relentless waves of information.

    The charisma of Charles Manson rode on such a wave of apparently congruent details.

    I had occasion in the late sixties to briefly come under the influence of one of his disciples. It was powerful and fascinating. Again I believe God intervened and my mind was wrested away from destruction.

    There has never been any shortage of convincing writers and speakers, nor of those who pursue the sense of importance and destiny which comes on those who buy into their enchantments. That’s the reason the deceivers are successful, is the payoff to the deceived, is an exaggerated sense of self. Usually rising out of a long enduring sense of diminished self-worth and a longing to be more than we are. We long to be significant because we fear we are not

    I tend now to follow the advice of the Apostle James who wrote “But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, peace-loving, courteous, full of compassion and good fruits, it is wholehearted and straightforward, impartial, and unfeigned.” (James 3:17)

    While this may not protect me from every wolf in sheeps clothing it hopefully will prevent me from becoming one.

    The Lord really IS coming, and none too soon. But it could well be quite awhile yet.

    Don

    May 4, 2008 at 6:17 am

  71. Dear; Sir;; I kave noticed that Mr. Weinland this week has no online sermon
    on line this weekend May 3. Do you have any infotmation on what gas happened.
    Has Mr. Weinlamd stopped his preaching. Would appreciate your reply.

    Thank You;
    Ches Gardner

    Ches Gardner

    May 5, 2008 at 11:26 am

  72. took me a while to respond, but you’re welcome Anonymous Pleas. Glad my story could help you.

    If anyone wants to know how to spot a false prophet, I can tell you it’s not in his prophecies. Go to the Bible. The Bible tells you how to spot one, and the short answer is in Matthew 7. “By his fruits”
    Does he have love? No? Then FALSE! Regardless of his accuracy. Satan can work ‘miracles’ too, as well as quote scripture. Does he put himself before Christ? Yes? FALSE! Etc….

    Constance_Dogood

    May 5, 2008 at 3:38 pm

  73. We haven’t seen any “miracles”, from ANY source, “good” or “evil”, since the Witless Weinlands took up the mantle of being biblical characters.

    weinlandwatch

    May 5, 2008 at 5:18 pm

  74. Weinland Watch, I just have a question for you and well most others on here! Why is it you guys or searching for these so called Prophets? Why is everyone so worried about the end of time? It bewilders me! I mean I have concern yet, I believe that if I do right or at least try to and repent with heartfelt when I mess up, they I should not have to worry. I mean the U.S is eventually gonna fall anyhow just due to the fact right now were are economically in a recession and here goes bush giving more people money to try to spend and get money going again. Just like the sayin you have to spend money to get money. But a good population is immigrants. I still see yet to find out why he didnt take care of immigration before doing so. Im my opinion I believe George W. Bush Jr. is settin the US up for a major depression. Correct me if Im wrong??!!??!!

    Michelle

    May 5, 2008 at 9:11 pm

  75. Now there’s a clear-cut case of missing the point completely………….

    weinlandwatch

    May 5, 2008 at 9:14 pm

  76. Missing what point?

    Michelle

    May 5, 2008 at 9:22 pm

  77. This site is not here “looking for” prophets. If you had read at least a portion of it, you would realize it, and the sites associated with it, exist to tell people about Armstrongism and its various splinter groups, of which Ronald Weinland’s CoG-PKG is one.

    weinlandwatch

    May 5, 2008 at 9:25 pm

  78. No, you completely misunderstood my point. I was going off what the last few people were talking about, who this so called prophet would be. Not I read Rons book and I have read your into. Its just in the last few subject you guys have been talking about whether or not who to trust as far as prophets, how to spot one or even so forth. My question was aimed towards the economy and what anyone at that matter would think of what Bush is doing? Not to get off course and start any type of political debate, but it does revolve around what we live in. Do you get me?

    Michelle

    May 5, 2008 at 9:29 pm

  79. Michelle, the point of this blog is about getting rid of a prophet, not trying to find one.

    If you turn your thinking over to someone else, you’re just putting a ring in your nose for them to lead you off to slaughter. Get a variety of opinions, examine them carefully, and make up your own mind. Don’t search for a prophet to divine the future, plan it out for yourself.

    Ekimks (Mike)

    May 6, 2008 at 3:08 am

  80. Do you think you could tell?

    Remember when we were poets
    When we lived what we wrote
    Cause it came from a source
    Greater than our egos
    It was asked long ago if
    You could tell a blue sky from rain
    We choose pain rather than mercy
    The fruits of our words will
    Consume rather than satisfy
    Speak wisdom in the way
    You have what you say
    Secret? Can’t you see?
    Its explained in English
    Understood only in the heart
    Wisdom is given to those who would seek it
    To the truly brave who would grasp
    Whats at the bottom of the flask
    Speak unto the earth it will
    Respond to what we say
    Its reacting to what we are doing
    Do you know where we’re going?
    Since we have no excuse for the abuse
    We have no distance from the reality
    Do stars shine brighter in a righteous sky?
    We now call it naïve and innocent to
    Speak into our world truths so bold
    As love, mercy, patience, virtue
    Pulling down the “high places”
    Of our minds is just and right
    To rid ourselves of the treason
    Born for a season fast approaching

    Daniel

    May 10, 2008 at 4:08 pm

  81. God of our Fathers

    With words we erode our children’s faith.

    With words we extol what evolution saith.

    With words we say what is plain to see.

    To the most innocent amongst you and me.

    We are not savages ruled by a foreign king.

    We need not be told about what to think.

    We are not conquered people unless we regress,

    To a place that’s only evil, and God will not redress.

    We would shut His mouth, not allowing Him to confess,

    His infinite love, His tenderness.

    When America was founded we asked for God’s grace.

    For bountiful fields, for blue skies, and for the only place,

    Among the heathen nations, that would stand out.

    A place free from oppression. “Was there any doubt?”

    We wanted all He had to offer, all He had to share.

    With a people who would make His Word rule there.

    So we gained the promise written in the bible,

    About the nations and their survival,

    about a promise and not a libel,

    that other nations could not rival.

    Our hearts and minds still hearken to the day

    When Jesus was our Lord and it mattered what we say.

    Now our words are only words, they do not resonate.

    They do not carry the promise we gain, when we state,

    Our position on freedom of religion, from oppression of foreign rules,

    From those who would divide us and make us into fools.

    The kings of old knew by what name wars were won.

    Some learned that without Him their armies were undone.

    Be not like unto Israel who walked away from,

    Their God, their Love, their Master, to walk about in a storm.

    Their cities are all divided, their future predecided,

    By the strength of nations colliding, on the land that is provided,

    By THE PROMISE

    By THE ONE TRUE GOD

    The GOD of our Fathers

    Daniel

    May 10, 2008 at 4:12 pm

  82. “Belteshazzar”? Looks like somebody took “Daniel, A Man of God” a little too much to heart. ;-)

    BwaaaaaahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA check out Danny-boy’s friends list: There’s a MySpace page for Babylon The Great!! :-D AhhhHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that’s too funny.

    Pity Weinland restricted his members from MySpace back on March 15, otherwise he’d really have something say about that!

    Thanks for the laugh guys I needed it. :-D

    weinlandwatch

    May 10, 2008 at 4:30 pm

  83. where do you think babylon the great came from. yours truly.
    please don’t take yourselves too seriously.
    I don’t agree with wienland but if that’s all it takes to get your knickers in a twist there will be more to come.

    Far too easy to sit on the sidelines and make jokes.
    Are you really helping or just fanning the flames?

    Daniel

    May 10, 2008 at 7:05 pm

  84. CONTROL

    The vanity of man is in believing that one has control over ones soul,
    It has been bought and paid for by water and blood,
    The only thing to do is to make a choice,
    If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice,
    Its in all the songs, the verses tell the tale,
    If you listen to what is said you cant run from it,
    You cant bury your head in the sand,
    All we do all the day long is vanity, insanity,
    Looking for an answer that is before us,
    Why pretend you dont see the truth,
    To admit it would be tantamount to treason,
    Cant give the real reason, its not yet the season,
    When we pass through the cemetery gates will it be,
    As we believed, or as we conceived,
    We learn it very young, as fine young cannibals,
    Seasoned in all the rituals while watching,
    Our parents and their offspring,
    Learning from the pack how to attack, to not have lack,
    To further the species, to continue with entreaties,
    Will it turn out how we plan or will fate deal us a blow,
    We pray in vain because all is vanity, all is as it should be,
    Without the Spirit there is no redemption,
    We wont be recognized, wont be understood,
    The shepherd knows the name and appearance of all of his sheep,
    They know his voice upon hearing it,
    Because they hear it all the day long even when we deny it so,
    When you see the Spirit as children you look in awe and wonder,
    The mighty splendor of the face and heart of a disciple,
    Crawl into their laps to revel in the feeling,
    Squealing with the anticipation, everything will be right,
    Things that are crooked will be made straight,
    Can we beat around the bush some more,
    Once more around the track for good measure,
    Just to feel a little more pleasure,
    Is a cubit the measure of a man or the length of a sanctuary,
    No reason to be contrary, no reason to be wary,
    It is for all who would believe, can you conceive,
    Dont leave the choice to chance because of circumstance,
    Dont say “some other day” I wanna play
    It will come as a thief in the night as the first born of Egypt,
    The only thing that stands between humans and total evil,
    Are the believers, the only reason hell hasnt been loosed on earth,
    Sure we put up a great facade to wall out the offences,
    To protect ourselves from the elements, the increments,
    That we sell our souls out every day for a slice of,
    In the mistaken belief that we can somehow change it ,
    That we can make it be how we conceive it be,
    Masters of our own destiny, is the cry from the streets,
    The mob screams for vengeance for all its wrongs,
    We believe reality is what we see on TV,
    Constantly being told how to feel, how to reveal ourselves to the world,
    How to console ourselves with the things that are priceless,
    How to drink deeply the wine of the wrath of our creator,
    To be puppets in an insane, feverish pitch over the edge,
    Its more than just Oh it used to be so different when we were young
    Its in every one of us, waiting for a chance to make an entrance,
    Lets put some distance between me and my oppressor,
    If I look to others to be untouchable will it be so,
    Vying for a spot in the limelight,
    A plight for fools and plunderers, each day is sufficient to the evil thereof,
    Educated idiots on a collision course with the truth,
    Rich in things , lacking the substance of any virtue, of any shame,
    We make the terrorists look tame, whos to blame,
    The anatomy of a tragedy is a never ending story,
    A ploy in an obscene game of I deserve it more than you,
    Utopia can be had if by trying we are doing,
    What is humanly sufficient for a conceptualized existence,
    If there is no guarantee of tomorrow then lets have it today,
    No one can take it away from a generation that will not be denied,
    Has anyone ever said we are going too fast, or were we not listening,
    To the warnings around us in the view of our own eyes,
    We look to the skies in an ever fervent wonder of what is there,
    Denying the being we know is there and imagining things that dont exist,
    Gaining ground is not a reality on this slippery slope,
    We tie our hope on what is to come when we know we are not promised tomorrow,
    When the cost of our interests are more than we can produce,
    Doesnt take a philosopher to deduce that the equation is unequal,
    A deficit is inevitable with an attitude of arrogance, and ignorance.

    Daniel

    May 10, 2008 at 7:23 pm

  85. Trust me we don’t agree with Weinland either…….But we don’t agree with the Armstrongism our parents got sucked into, either. Only difference with Weinland is that we CAN make a difference, in sombody else’s life (before they ruin it by sending their money to the church), even if no one else made a difference in ours.

    weinlandwatch

    May 10, 2008 at 8:02 pm

  86. We all have regrets. I was raised on COG.
    Don’t believe in any religion. Religion (to me) is a personal relationship with Christ. Apart from religion. If the Saducees were right then the Pharisees were wrong, and vise-versa. Christ said both are wrong.
    If organized religion was the answer we would not still be looking for the two witnesses.
    We all know enough of Revelations to see where we are at in the flow of time.
    The Bible says that in the end time we will not need to teach each other because we will have NO EXCUSE we all know if we are with Christ or against him. We know the voice of the shepard and the shepard knows all of his flock.

    I look at it this way. If you take ALL of the religions in the world and put them in a salad bowl (toss thoroughly) you would have the whole truth. Everyone has a piece. We are made “in His image” we have more power than we realize.
    Noah spoke to the animals that entered the ark. How else did he manage that.
    It says in the bible that we will do more amazing things than Christ did. ie… If you say to a tree “remove thyself and toss yourself into the water it will do it.
    Jesus spoke to the demons in Legion and they begged for mercy because of the Word in Him.
    If we LIVE in truth we have power. If we choose to deny that power we have nothing.
    O.K. I understand that everyone wants to save everyone else from the big bad wolf.
    But… if you are in Christ the big bad wolf holds NO sway over you.
    God said he would put blinders on their eyes. (No weapon formed against them will be effective)
    Can you see where I’m going with this. Jesus takes care of his own. Noone or nothing in this world will keep them apart.
    True believers have discernment. Meaning they will not be swayed.
    If you are truly “in Christ” there is nothing to fear but fear itself.
    I completely feel for those that are losing everything. But what is ALL life worth.
    Paul says that he would gladly lose ALL to gain life.
    We always equate what we have as given us by God. God gave ALL and still gives daily to the evil as well as the good. We already have ALL.
    Things in this world are nothing. Money, position, power, houses, cars, etc…
    The Lord knows we have need of these things, they are on loan.
    Will they serve us in the time to come?
    If we want accurate knowledge we have to get it from the source. THE BIBLE.

    Daniel

    May 10, 2008 at 9:41 pm

  87. Haven’t seen either of the Weinlands attempt any of that tree-tossing yet. ;-)

    weinlandwatch

    May 10, 2008 at 11:50 pm

  88. Doubtless they will. The two witnesses will need no introduction. We as a people will see them as sure as we will see Christ. If we get on a bandwagon when it does happen,
    Will we not be part of the people that will kill them in the streets?
    Will we be the ones looking for the mountains to come down upon us?
    Seek ye the Kingdom of God FIRST (dont forget your first love) and all else will fall into place.
    Christ said that this life would be fraught with persecutions for our beliefs.
    Never did he say that it would be a bowl of cherries.
    In ancient Rome when they threw the christians to the lions for fun, the population of Rome soon got tired of watching even though they loved to see blood and carnage.
    Their heartstrings were pulling at them while they watched in utter horror at the scene playing out before them.
    Some were made believers because the word was that “noone could endure that much suffering without believing that there was something after”.
    The Bible says that we are to be sowers of the Word.
    So now lets sow the Word and leave off ridicule of others.
    Why? So that others can harvest. So that the harvest will be plentiful.
    May we now speak victory in our words so that we harvest victory for Christ.
    Is that not closer to what we as Christians should be doing at this time?
    Taking time out to answer the offences takes time away from the sowing of the word.

    Peace and brotherly love to all ((especially)) those we see as enemies.
    I appreciate the opportunity vent and hopefully to be heard.
    Offer him the other cheek and don’t take offence at the world.
    It knows not what it is doing.

    Taking offence at what others do to us is what got us into Afghanistan and eventually Iraq.

    Peace
    Daniel

    Daniel

    May 11, 2008 at 12:37 am

  89. You and I may disagree theologically (I’m a preterist definitely NOT a premillennialist), and the preaching doesn’t really do much for me (not a christian believer either sorry), but I’m glad you took the opportunity to vent (nice to see you got away from your CoG upbringing too).

    I think Weinland probably needs those words about “turn the other cheek” burned into his forehead—but then again hearsay suggests he’s had anger management issues for a long, long, long time now. Combined with his “god’s love is harsh” mantra, that’s why he is continually calling for death to befall his “mockers”. Funny though, no one’s died yet—not even the CoG ministers who were supposed to have died before March 18th.

    So much for those “fiery words” being the witnessy superpowers Weinland thought he downloaded on April 17th! :-D

    weinlandwatch

    May 11, 2008 at 12:45 am

  90. How can you not believe in christianity being a preterist, which is a form of christian eschatology? Being a preterist you believe that certain end time revelations have already happened in the first century after Christ birth? Yes/No?

    I realize that there is full and partial preterism. Old and new. A little unclear about all of your beliefs because I have only a vague understanding of it. Haven’t studied it much.

    My mother who was a devout CoG member, I was raised with it. She has, since the death of my father (a non-believer of anything not seen or obvious), switched to Jehovah’s Witnesses. The change is what brought me to question everything I was taught. Needless to say, we are at odds on beliefs now. Especially since they lay claim to each others teachings. ie… we said that first not them.
    The congregations go at each other like prize fighters. (CoG v. JW). Can’t and won’t get on board with either. So I guess I came to where I am through providence.

    “fiery words” did weinland try to put rhetoric on his beliefs on this blog?

    I don’t follow his stuff and only came across it online while doing my studying.
    Was appalled of course. But it brought me here too. Always willing to weigh the facts. If only everyone took the time and effort to exercise their minds and ask the questions they are formulating.

    The my space sites were put up in 2006. Both. Originally to make point/counterpoint views. Was looking to get people to questions MANY of the beliefs we all grew up with. Since it was a space for kids I thought it would be a good place to start. Adults being so ingrained with the theologies of the day. And the fact that you all can see the obstinance of believers once they believe they are right. Work, moving and family took up my time since then so the idea went unfinished.

    If people would only look beyond the hype of anything they would see the grisly truths about power, ambition, control, religious hierarchies and so forth, they could eventually get to the truth. Power and corruption completely engulf those with an agenda eventually.

    I appreciate your allowing me to express my views on these subjects. And let me know more about your views. It is new and interesting. But know also that I WILL try to prove or disprove them with biblical reading. I couldn’t tell you how many times I’ve read the Bible from cover to cover. Was told once that it could be done in 80 hours. Took me 83 the first time.
    Didn’t spend that much time looking for preterists beliefs. Given time I may form an opinion.

    Are we not, through words and the internet, rebuilding the tower of Babel?
    Language and language word programs that allow us to talk to all people in the world in their language? Get my drift?

    Daniel

    May 11, 2008 at 5:22 am

  91. serious question to owner of website. What if Ron is who he says he is and this whole time you were on the other side?

    Smoothya

    May 24, 2008 at 8:20 pm

  92. Serious answer. Weinland has already disproven himself so it’s a moot point.

    OK if you want a serious answer from a Church of God perspective I will grant you one:

    IF everything the CoGs preach is right (which I don’t believe), and Weinland’s splinter is the ONLY “true church of god” out of the 700+ “churches of god” that make exactly the same claim (which I don’t believe any of them are, including Weinland’s), then I will quite happily take a long walk off a short plank into the Lake of Fire during the Third Resurrection.

    Living the “godly” way of life was bad enough the first time around. I certainly would not willingly do so for all etermity.

    weinlandwatch

    May 24, 2008 at 8:48 pm

  93. Amen, WW.

    And if that happens, the world will not have seen the number of curse words and sheer invective I throw at God as I go down.

    "R"

    May 24, 2008 at 10:17 pm

  94. Armstrongism — the dystopia that not even science fiction can touch, for sheer darkness. :-(

    weinlandwatch

    May 24, 2008 at 10:53 pm

  95. How can you possibly be a prophet bearing witness to all this crazy end of times stuff… when the bible states that no man will know?

    Does it also bother you that you were WRONG about the attack on the U.S. It’s almost June 2008 bro.

    Know what you are doing? You are simply preying upon the weakness and fears of people who put every inch of their faith into something beautiful. Some say Religion is corrupt and perverted. Sir Weinland… it is YOU that is corrupt and perverted.

    Stop with the EGO…. how do you think God thinks of you right now? Do you think that whatever being made us, wants to take false prophets lightly?

    If you truly are a prophet… and i end up being wrong… I apologize… (but considering how many times YOU HAVE BEEN WRONG thus far. I highly doubt you are any sort of Godly prophet) …….. otherwise… your entire campaign of fear is nothing but that….

    May God have mercy on your soul sir. Because preying on the fear and weakness of not only your fellow man… but your fellow Christian, just to make some money on some books and websites…… seems a little more severe than oh say… adultery. Thou shall not lie… and I am a sinner…. i SIN like crazy….. everyday… all day… I’m not proud of it… but I’ll definitely not be the first to cast a stone your way.

    I’m just saying… grow up… get a REAL JOB. and leave these poor Christians alone. its hard enough for them to deal with the contradictions of the bible while listening to some preacher try to tell them what the Bible means when he doesn’t really even know….

    Adam

    May 28, 2008 at 2:04 am

  96. Thank you Adam for such honest heartfelt comments. I have the book, I struggle with religion, I watch this site. I was fearful but less so now.

    Tony

    May 28, 2008 at 8:04 am

  97. Less fear is always a good thing! :-)

    weinlandwatch

    May 28, 2008 at 2:19 pm

  98. The 2 witnesses are not literal people. Those who are waiting for 2 wizard like people to occur doing supernatural things, will wait and wait. Jesus spoke in parables, and the Bible interprets its own symbolism. The 2 witnesses represent the candlestick and olive tree.

    What do these represent in the Bible?

    When you figure this out, you will truly know who the 2 witnesses are.

    Church people will never get it.

    Jasper

    May 29, 2008 at 8:48 pm

  99. Spoken like someone who doesn’t have a clue! People who don’t understsnd hide behind the “spoken in parables” cliche.

    Daniel

    May 30, 2008 at 3:48 am

  100. They are all parables though. And Egyptian parables, at that, that have absolutely nothing to do with the state religion of Rome, that unsuspecting Xtians are living by to this very day, under the pretexts of being “saaaaaaaaved by Jebus”.

    I have to confess, Daniel, seeing your name got my hopes up, when the comment hit my Inbox; unfortunately, you are not the Daniel that I am worried about. :-(

    Daniel from Central Islip, if you are out there, please let us know how you are!

    weinlandwatch

    May 30, 2008 at 4:05 am

  101. I have just found this site and information about Ronald Weinland. I fully expect there to be terrible times ahead accoding to the Bible, but I don’t believe that this year is the beginning of the end. I am not familiar with Rondal Weinland. He is referred to here as a false prophet. What specific things has he prophesied to discredit himself?

    Mark

    May 30, 2008 at 7:47 pm

  102. I came across Weinlands website, and ordered a free copy of the book, I thought there was some reason that I can not explain that took me to the site to order the book. After rerading it in 3 days, I became scared confused and should I be going to another church service where I attend. This is written by man, so I dont believe everything in it, Man lies. When I was a kid , i watched the movies Mark of the Beast, Left behind, and maybe a few other ones predicting the End times. I trully feel that this generation will be the last one, But alot of things would have to happen for this to be the last 3.5 years as Weinland explains after the 7th seal is opened. Something drastic will have to happen this year to back up his predictions!

    ATRAIN

    May 31, 2008 at 11:30 pm

  103. Well, now, I found this site through Google after someone mentioned Weinland during sabbath services. He seems to have that rather odd charisma which many of the tiny splinter leaders have, which, honestly, I’ve never fallen for.

    I wanted to answer the charge about the “constrictive” setting. I grew up in the WWCG, going to the Hinsdale, Illinois suburban Chicago congregation. Chicago, in my youth, had some 2000 in attendance at combined services, for the 6 congregations, it was a strong an vibrant community. We started youth groups years before the YOU, and the message was “love and the law.” Love first. Walking like Christ first.

    If one loves the Eternal, one tries to do what the eternal wants, and his instructions are in the law. If you know of some other place where there are instructions, I’d love to see them. The Messiah gave no new commandments, he taught everything from the Law. Including the love. And the Forgiveness. And his Sacrifice being for our sins.

    So, it is what it is. If you were weak in spirit, you might have felt constricted or controlled. I never did.

    Take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary. I am a very unique soul.

    Jonathan Schattke

    June 1, 2008 at 12:39 am

  104. Ron is (in my opinion) promoting “blastphemy”, which is,, NOT believing in the word of God. The word of God is, “Thou art forgiven” through Jesus Christ. IF he is a prophet of God, then he is going through his “Humility” stage now, and perhaps later he willl wear sackcloth along with his wife and not have to strive so hard to reach the world, as I am certain a true prophet of God will be found and sought out, rather than standing on a soap box with brochures in hand, and free publications on the www.
    The truest “church” of God, is in thyself (in my opinion), and it is self that causes damnation and judgement by one’s own unforgiveness of self, as it is clearly blastphemy to judge God’s judement upon self, or the world, as God said, “Thou art forgivien”.. If you judge harshly, Ronald, then too -do you judge yourself, and then suppose God’s jugement upon him, but, God said that there would be false prophets, and therefore, he has fulfilled this, just as we all fulfill God’s word, like it or not.

    Joseph Belanger

    June 1, 2008 at 5:21 am

  105. Daniel,

    You are another Literalists who believes the two witnesses will have supernatural powers and breath fire out of their mouth.

    Good Luck with that

    Jasper

    June 2, 2008 at 1:49 am

  106. I wonder……..how many times does John Hagee, Billy Graham, Hall Lindsay, Jack Van Impe….and the list goes on and on…….do they have to be incorrect before the Literalists start to realize that MAYBE they have no true understanding of the Bible.

    I have listened to these men lay out the end times scenario for several decades, only to continually change their interpretations because they are consistently incorrect. The Bible is a book on salvation that is NOT concerned with the political affairs of mankind. Those of you who are waiting for Israel to be destroyed by China, Russia, Syria and 50 other countries are going to wait and wait. Everytime a firecracker goes off near Israel, one of these men will announce that Armageddon is upon us, only to be wrong.

    Those of you who are waiting for 2 supernatural humans, who breath fire out of their mouths, to come unto the world scene as the 2 end time witnesses, shall wait and wait. God gave us all a brain, i think it is a shame we don’t use it when it comes to prophecy.

    If you are under 30 and have not had the chance to witness how often these “Bible Scholars” are incorrect in their literal interpretations, then I can understand your ill conceived views. However, if you are over 30 and are still waiting for a scene that sounds like it came out of one of J.R.R. Tolkiens books, I am concerned for you.

    Jasper

    June 2, 2008 at 2:41 am

  107. All this talk and no one has yet mentioned Peter Popoff. Now that one is a real $rofit.

    Gramps Tony

    June 2, 2008 at 7:04 am

  108. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t God give “daniel” ?? a vision about a precursor to the tribulation/revelation period…….. About Damascus turing to a sea of glass?

    Damascus is in Syria….. and Sand turns to glass with heat/or a nuke……. but no harm will come to Isarel.

    Weinland say’s nothing of this…. It’s in the bible people, in two places….about Damascus turing to a sea of glass…. and if you look at a time line of prophecy’s given, this has to happen before revelation/amaragedon.

    Last I checked Syria was just fine, and the sand was still sand..

    One thing about weinland’s book jumped out: his whole thing on Mezeldeck…..
    and Elijah being the Armstrong dude…. weird why he thinks the way he does, and how he twist and interprets scripture…

    sory about the spelling typo’s.

    A soldiers Angel

    June 6, 2008 at 8:39 am

  109. Ronald Weinland believes, as do other Armstrongist Church of God ministers from the Worldwide Church of God, that Herbert W. Armstrong was “the end-time Elijah” who predicted that they would see Armageddon and the returned kingdom of god in their lifetimes.

    Ronald Weinland is the only one of those ministers (so far) who has set absolute, “concrete” dates to those predictions (March 18th/April 17th/June 8th 2008). I say “concrete” with quotes because, as you can see, the goalposts keep changing, and the “dates” will keep getting moved further and further ahead, so long as there are still people trapped in Weinland’s group.

    weinlandwatch

    June 6, 2008 at 10:52 am

  110. Forgot to add — regarding Armstrong’s “Kingdom of God” — he first started preaching that in 1933. It has been over three-quarters of a century, and at least two generations have passed, and that kingdom hasn’t come yet.

    I’m not holding my breath for it to come either. I am living the best life that I can, with the life that I have, in the here and now. I don’t have everything on hold as I dream gently of a future fantasy that will never come to pass.

    weinlandwatch

    June 6, 2008 at 10:54 am


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