Weinland Watch

Weinland Watch

The Seventh Seal Definitively Debunked.

Updated March 23, 2008: Apparently the church has reversed its position on the shock and horror at the opening of the seventh seal. Or at least the church is trying to explain it in a manner that will keep the brainwashed members in for as long as they possibly can, until Ron&Co get enough money to be able to safely head for the hills themselves. Not because of any global great tribulation, but because of the tribulation the members are going to give Weinland and his elders, when they realize they’ve been duped!

“I know the exact day the Sixth Seal was opened, and the world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the Seventh Seal is opened.” [pp. 23, 2008: God’s Final Witness]

The world isn’t shocked and in horror yet and “the day that the seventh seal is opened” is wearing on. Strike one Weinland!

“….the world will be caught off guard when the Seventh Seal is opened.” [pp. 59, 2008: God’s Final Witness]

It’s been opened. Anyone caught off guard yet? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Anyone? Striiiiike twoooooo!

“The opening of the Seventh Seal will serve as a warning to the world that the final end-time tribulation has come……” [pp. 60, 2008: God’s Final Witness]

Pity nothing happened.

Before the Seventh (and final) Seal is opened, the Seven Thunders will become so pronounced that the validity of everything written about them in the previous chapter should roar loudly in the ears of anyone who is willing to admit the truth.” [pp. 115, 2008: God’s Final Witness]

The seventh seal has been open for quite some time now and none of the final three thunders have become that “pronounced”: Rod Meredith is not dead, the US has not recognized Weinland as god’s end-time prophet and the Christian world has not, last time I checked, abandoned trinitarianism. Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerike threeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Thank you for playing Rotten Ronnie, you’re out!

Do members still want to hang on until April 17th, 2008? Weinland has been proven false time and time again. The financial abuse of the membership continues (a tithe is required before members are “approved” for baptism). What reason do members have left to stay in the church, except that they have been so frightened by Weinland’s apocalyptic predictions that they feel they have nowhere left to turn before “time runs out”?

Time has been “running out” for Armstrong and his adherents for over seventy-five years. Why their time hasn’t “run out” completely, is anybody’s guess. Charisma? Promises of “the wonderful world tomorrow”? So much time and money invested that members feel they have no choice but to “stick with it” to the bitter end?

Whatever the reason, Weinland is getting richer. Even after April 17th, 2008 passes without incident, his followers will probably still find or make some excuse for him (if he and his ministers don’t make up their own). The same thing happened in 1975, and the church kept going (in some places even stronger than it was before) right up until 1993.


Written by weinlandwatch

March 18, 2008 at 7:50 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

49 Responses

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  1. The top story at a news wire I just checked said: “German Chancellor Earns Ovation for Saying Germany Will Stand by Israel – AP”

    Shouldn’t it be exactly the opposite, if the Seventh Seal was opening today? Given what COG’s historically have taught re: European-Israeli relations?

    By the way, I work in a TV newsroom — and brought up this Seventh Seal Day in the morning meeting. Hardly anyone seemed thrilled. And at midday, a couple of Christians on the staff actually were giving praise to God. Such liberals….


    March 18, 2008 at 8:34 pm

  2. Wait wait wait: Were they praising god the seventh seal was opened? Or that nothing had happened?


    March 18, 2008 at 8:47 pm

  3. Just to clear up the confusion, today is the spiritual awakening of Israel, the opening of the Seventh Seal. This will start the awakening of the remaining remnant (those baptized before December 1994 – approximately 3000) and will continue right up until the return of Jesus Christ. It doesn’t mean something physical is going to happen today. I’m so thrilled God is getting ready to put an end to all of this laughing and mocking. For when mid-april comes, God will present you with something physical, something that will bring you to your knees. You know it’s funny, nobody believes Mr. Weinland and yet you keep talking about him.


    March 18, 2008 at 11:06 pm

  4. So here’s a question (and for anyone who cares, this is the “cleanest” comment from a PKG member I’ve had on the blog so far today):

    It doesn’t mean something physical was going to happen today (which it didn’t)?

    Explain exactly for us (if you’re even going to come back to this blog again after leaving your “anonymous” comment) how “the spiritual awakening of Israel” is going to translate to:

    “I know the exact day the Sixth Seal was opened, and the world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the Seventh Seal is opened.” [pp. 23, 2008: God’s Final Witness]

    So how is that not physical? How is the death of Rod Meredith (who will die as part of the fifth thunder) not physical? The book says the seven thunders must sound in so pronounced a manner, no one will be able to deny them before the seventh seal is opened. None of the final three thunders have gotten “more pronounced”, and the seventh seal is almost over and done with.

    As for “God” presenting me with something that “will bring me to my knees” my my that’s a godly attitude now isn’t it? Oh, that’s right, you’re a member of a Church of God. I am clearly possessed by demons, and as such, must be mocked.

    As for why I keep talking about Weinland, it’s because I don’t want any more people to waste their time or money buying in to what he has to sell. (And make no mistake about it, he is selling seats for “survival during the great tribulation”.)

    And what are you going to do when April 17th comes and nothing happens?


    March 18, 2008 at 11:14 pm

  5. And WW….do you have RW’s IP address? See if thats him…


    March 18, 2008 at 11:15 pm

  6. Nope. Not him. Might be Sam Qualls though.

    My bad. I got my “S” elders mixed up.

    Might be Skip Henry.


    March 18, 2008 at 11:21 pm

  7. Who’s Sam Qualls?

    and P.S Why don’t we move this to a forum?


    March 18, 2008 at 11:23 pm

  8. Sam might be a survivalist up in Saskatchewan. Skip might be the regular visitor of my site who is coming in either from Islip, or North Babylon. (NY) The anonymous commenter above is a regular visitor from Islip.


    March 18, 2008 at 11:54 pm

  9. It’s fairly crude but it will work http://z9.invisionfree.com/The_Weinland_Watch/index.php


    March 19, 2008 at 12:06 am

  10. I notice my “anonymous” visitor did not stick around to debate the questions I asked. Typical CoG reaction, a drive-by comment without thought to the consequences, or towards engaging in constructive debate.


    March 19, 2008 at 12:07 am

  11. TNAfan121

    March 19, 2008 at 12:09 am

  12. Ah so we have somebody who’s acting like he’s 2 and gonna tell the Cult leader what were doing?


    March 19, 2008 at 12:10 am

  13. I was anonymous and I’m only 18 years old. I’m not going to try and change your minds. It’s nearly impossible task. The only advice I strongly recommend is Repent, and in time God will begin to open up your mind, just like He did with me.


    March 19, 2008 at 12:10 am

  14. You’re 18? Are you a baptized member? If so that is really depressing. The demographics of the church initially suggested that there were no children in it. Or not many, at least. 😦

    I’m sorry you’re in the church, Daniel (bonus points for stepping up and “un-anonymizing” yourself). I hope you can look back on your involvement with Weinland’s sect ten years from now, and find some peace with your past. I hope you can look back on your involvement with Weinland’s group in thirty days and make peace with your past, when nothing happens.


    March 19, 2008 at 12:19 am

  15. I haven’t been baptized, in time I will be though.


    March 19, 2008 at 12:23 am

  16. If I might ask you a few questions? (And you still haven’t answered my question about how the “spiritual awakening” can be reconciled to Weinland’s assertion in the book that “the world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the seventh (and final) seal is opened”.)

    If you know you are not going to be a member of the 144,000 “rulers of god in the kingdom of god” why would you want to get baptized?

    And do your parents know that you have to pay the church before you are baptized?

    Does the fact that you have to pay for your baptism not strike you as odd?


    March 19, 2008 at 12:40 am

  17. That “praise” was simply off-the-cuff stuff. They attend African-American tradition churches (for lack of a better label) on Sundays. It had nothing to do with Seventh Seal Day at all.

    I agree with Daniel — people should repent of their sins. ‘Tis the season (pre-Passover) to do that, but it’s a good idea anytime.


    March 19, 2008 at 12:43 am

  18. Ahhhhh but that gets in a whole ‘nother thorny discussion, Richard, namely: “What is Sin?” (and no I don’t mean the HWA booklet of the same name.)


    March 19, 2008 at 12:45 am

  19. We all search for truth, but please people, God has given us COMMON SENSE, lets use some of it. I was willing to give RW the benefit fo the doubt because I agree with many things he says BUT im not going to follow him blindly. So far I see not much proof. Im still DYING to hear him state that his wife is the 2nd witness!! OH brother that will be the nail in to coffin ! I really want a PGK answer to the question that WW brought up. You cannot re-write history. PAGE 23 and the word WORLD does not translate to SCATTERED FEW!!! – PLEASE Daniel dont just BLOW this off, please explain this one tiny little thing. Do you have the book? 😉


    March 19, 2008 at 12:53 am

  20. In order for anybody to ever enter the God Family, they must be baptized first. God is going to bring people through this Great Tribulation, those of us who truly have a genuine relationship with him, and he will keep them alive no matter where they are. Now I’m not saying I’m going to come through all of this, only God knows. But this relationship I now have with God truly has changed my life. He is with me in everything that I do and I have recongnized and deeply repented of, and corrected my flaws, and I’m a better person because of it. We should all be repenting and bettering our lives despite whether you believe in the Church of God or not. But only through the Church can you have a true relationship with him. I don’t know all of the answers because I am still learning myself. But a majority of that money goes to the shipping and making of all the books because it’s not free, and so he can get the message across. And don’t many who are not part of the Church of God always donate and give money to their churches during mass and other events. Tithing is practiced in a few religions.


    March 19, 2008 at 1:01 am

  21. Daniel. You still have not answered the question. How does “spiritual awakening” correlate with “the world will be shocked and in horror when the seventh (and final) seal is opened”?


    March 19, 2008 at 1:15 am

  22. The money Weinland is getting from his membership far exceeds what would be required to print and distribute the books, or keep up Internet ads, Daniel.

    And if you really do want to have an open dialogue about your beliefs (you say you are still learning and I would encourage you very strongly to never stop asking questions no matter what anyone tells you is “the truth”), I suggest that you read The Tithing Dilemma. It was written by a member of “the scattered church”.

    And please answer the question about the reference in Weinland’s book. For yourself, if not necessarily for us. You say you are still learning, well continue to learn, and continue to ask. Don’t just take it on faith that if you don’t understand something, it’s your fault because your faith isn’t strong enough. That isn’t true.

    Best of luck, and I would encourage you strongly to not seek baptism in the church. If only because you’re expected to pay for it. If you really feel the need to be baptized, there are plenty other Church of God groups out there that will do it for you, for free.

    And please don’t tell me that Weinland’s CoG is “the one true church”. There are over 650 of them, and they keep splitting even further, and every single one of them claims to be the one true church of god. If nothing else gives you pause, then that should.

    What do you know about the history of the Worldwide Church of God? If all you know about the WCG is only what the church has told you, then you are missing a lot of crucial information on the WCG and its splinters, of which Weinland’s church is one. (Only one, in a sea of them.)


    March 19, 2008 at 1:24 am

  23. In the Bible it explains how when the Seventh Seal is opened, there will be silence in Heaven for about the space of a half hour (30 days). It doesn’t say some kind of physical devestation is going to happen on the day it’s opened. Now that the seal has been opened, in mid-april there will be horror after the first trumpet has been blown by one of the angels.


    March 19, 2008 at 1:28 am

  24. All right. I will give you that, it does say that in the Bible. (Uh it says there will be a half-hour of silence, not thirty days.)

    So why does it say in Weinland’s book “the world will be shocked and in horror on the day that the Seventh Seal is opened.”?

    That contradicts the Bible.


    March 19, 2008 at 1:30 am

  25. The next time I will post something on this website April 17th- 23rd if we are still capable. And everyone can ridicule me if it doesn’t go down, but it will happen. Those blogs I left were not just for WW, but it was an attempt to begin to get people to start repenting.


    March 19, 2008 at 1:36 am

  26. You will still be capable of posting, Daniel, and I really do look forward to seeing you post. Please let us know how you are, and what you are doing, after April 17th.


    March 19, 2008 at 1:41 am

  27. And there goes another one. God he’s so young. 😦


    March 19, 2008 at 1:41 am

  28. DANIEL, dont leave, we KNOW that you are trying to do good. WE ALL agree that most people in the world do not beleive in the God and need MASSIVE redemption. All we are doing is questioning clear contradictions in what RW is saying. If you are going to beleive in what the bible says then FINE, its 30 MINUTES NOT 30 DAYS…if you are going to beleive in what RW is saying then FINE, but WHERE is the SHOCK AND HORROR ON THE DAY of the 7th SEAL as per PAGE 23 in the BOOK. THE WORLD WILL BE SHOCKED AND IN HORROR “ON THE DAY” that the 7th seal is opened…THESE ARE RW’s words, not ours…If there was a misprint, then have RW say so, but then well ask, WHY did it take so long to find the misprint…DAN, do you see our POINT? you must at least understand that what we are saying is NOT unrealistic. I look forward to your comment on this post…


    March 19, 2008 at 2:25 am

  29. The resolute belief of Daniel is nothing that surprises me.

    There was a time in my life, as there was a time in the life of many former WCG members, where we too had such strong beliefs.

    People said “It Will Happen” Prior to 1975.
    Ex-WCG Members said Jesus “Will Return” back in the 1930s. Herbert said Jesus “Will Return” back in the 1930s. He did not.
    Ex-WCG Members died in their belief and faith – thousands of them.

    18 years of age is an extremely impressionable age in the life of a young adult. They can be easily convinced and difficult to sway. The only thing that is going to convince this young man of the absolute error he has been swiftly and unfortunately led to believe is when these things do not happen. Then, it will be exit and support counseling for him either then or down the road.

    The toll of all of this will not be the thunders, the trumpets, the seals, or anything related to Ronald Weinland. The truth is that this is the continued legacy of Herbert Armstrong – although on a much smaller scale, psychologically, it has the ability to be much more damaging to the few who are blinded to the reality.

    After April 17th – when none of this goes down as prophecied – this blog, my forum as linked, and many other people who long ago woke up to the documented proof and truths as to the errors of Herbert Armstrong and his splinters – will be there. And we will be here – ready to help. Only then, in late April, will people wake up and realize that they have been absolutely and completely – and royally – deceived.


    March 19, 2008 at 2:42 am

  30. I agree, it doesn’t surprise me either. Hell, I was like that when I was eighteen, and the church was just starting to really get into the swing of things with the changes (leading to some of the most confusing sermons I have ever slept through in my life).

    I just can’t get over the fact that he’s so young. That seems to be the general demographic of most of Weinland’s members I have encountered online. Whereas the demographic of most of the CoGs is aging, the PKG seems to have a lot of young adults (and now at least one child) as members. And at least two young adult males in the ministry.

    This is not a good thing. Yes, yes, I know, I was like that when I was a child. Absolutely I was like that. That worries me.


    March 19, 2008 at 2:31 pm

  31. Im am a tradictional Catholic and do not feel connected with you guys or understand what its like being in such a small cult-like “religion”. Can you shed some light on the psychie of the armstrongs, weinland, etc? Are they seriouly mentally ill? are they just scam artisits (many in the world) that just have no conscious and just reall dont care that they can ruin lives? whats the motivation? I mean they are somewhat functioning in society. Do we think that they actually HEAR VOICES in their heads and are possibly the very thing weinland accuses some catholic children who claim to see the virgin mary? Its real but its the work of the devil?? – thats fo the input


    March 19, 2008 at 3:23 pm

  32. I don’t know about the membership hearing voices. Jury’s still out on Weinland. (I.e., whether or not he’s completely schizophrenic, or if he’s just in it for the money.)


    March 19, 2008 at 3:29 pm

  33. In answer to Steve’s question –

    Steve, let me put it this way as an ex-member of the Worldwide Church of God for over 22 years.

    When you are in this sort of an organization – a closed cult system, where you are hammered what to believe over and over again, it does seriously become what you believe. Everything and everything revolves around your belief. The perceptions of the world around you are literally changed – and the way you (in the cult) view the world around you is completely different then the way others (the world at large) view the world.

    It isn’t a mental illness that is like schizophrenia, bipolar, or anything like that. It’s different – it’s what happens when you believe error so strongly it becomes reality to you. And it’s not just common in these “Churches of Gods”. Other small cultish fringe religions in christianity completely outside of Armstrongism have the same exact problems – too numerous to go into here.

    These COG leaders do not understand or grasp how they are as you say “ruining lives”. They do have a psyche, and they do have a conscience. The problem is that their every behaviour is geared to “warning” the world – and in the case with Weinland, it’s become such a strong belief with him in his mind that he has now convinced a small army of people of that same belief using the same methods and tactics that made Herbert so successful – even though he too was, of course, in serious doctrinal error.

    They do not “hear voices” – they regard that as demonic. Instead, they use circumstantial evidence, plus teachings of Herbert Armstrong, combined with new revelation, combined with the “reality” that “the end has to be close” to come up with the complicated prophecies you see here. And as you also see here, the end result of this sort of mission is not repentance and remission of sins – but fear. They don’t see it that way though. When one is indoctrinated for over 30 years as individuals such as Armstrong or Weinland has in Armstrongism, it’s impossible to see anything past implanted perceptions. And these implanted perceptions are, to them, as real as the sun and moon are to us.


    March 19, 2008 at 5:52 pm

  34. Hey Shadows, thanks a million for that, it did explain things to me and based on history, wako, jonestown, that carzy mormon guy…just too many horrific to list, i would imagine that there would be some rational justification as to why so many people get brainwashed. Its just SUCH a FOREIGN concept for me. I hope I dont offend but there must be some sort of self esteme personality flaw/insecurity ungroudedness that followers must have at that point in time that common sense just goes out the window. My gut feeling tells me that one thing thats missing, IRONICALLY, is the REALITY (RW overuses this word BTW to the point that it makes me kringe) that these people are lacking the TRUE cocept of GOD and who we are in relation to our creator!!!God is so powerful and has made us in his image, therefore we have the capability of being GREAT / LOVING / POWERFUL / SUCCESSFUL / IMPACTFUL / MORAL ” I N D I V D U A L S ” that can move mountains and make a positive impact on the world because God gives us that ability…I just think these small groups dont attract exceptionally grounded people rather than attract weak lost souls(at that point and time-please dont be offended). Actually, its kinda obvious!!! – anyway thanks for listening to the RANT! 😉


    March 19, 2008 at 7:44 pm

  35. I don’t agree that “god” makes us individuals—at least not if you define “god” as that bad-tempered ol’ boy from the ol’ testament. 🙂

    We are individuals, that is how we come into the world. We can move mountains and have positive impacts on the world around us, so long as we agree to be a part of the world around us, to participate fully, instead of isolating ourselves from society because we are “special” or “set apart”.

    We shouldn’t assign the blame to a deific, far-away-and-long-ago-mythological figure when things in our lives go wrong. We shouldn’t give that same mythological figure responsibility when we do good things in our own lives, and that of others, to make the world a better place.


    March 19, 2008 at 10:33 pm

  36. WW- Totally agree!!! Im not saying God is responsible for good and bad that happen to us, He has created all, natural law, the good and bad that happen to us are direct actions of our choices, free will. Def not isolationist, UM, love thy neighbor as you love yourself – JESUS CHRIST! – a VERY hands on guy! –


    March 19, 2008 at 11:24 pm

  37. Totally agree, didnt mean to convey that God is resposibile for all Good and Bad that happens to us. He created ALL, give all possibilities for our sucess and demise. the good and bad that happen to us is directly due to our choices, its called free will and natural law.


    March 19, 2008 at 11:28 pm

  38. The Seventh Seal opening was Readers Digest agreeing to run ads for Ron. No wait, that was HWA’s reason 1972 was so amazingly prophetic…


    March 24, 2008 at 10:47 pm

  39. You never know, Ron might play the upcoming TV commercials the same way……. 😦


    March 25, 2008 at 1:52 pm

  40. Here’s what makes me think twice after having read both books, and strangely enough, having had some sort of an awakenng in the last week.

    Ron’s books/ prophecies have almost NOTHING to do with the other 5.5 billion people around the rest of the world concerning the church. There’s a lucky few AMERICANS from his church that are privy to this info and it seems that all his books and prophecies really acknowledge are people in his church and specific people from his church or the COG splinter groups that he disagees with. How does he have NO revelation concerning heretical pastors in other countries?, How come he has no info pertaining to the rest of the church around the world? Why are only wealthy Americans lucky to have a rich white guy lead the way through the tribulation?

    Yah also has a habit of choosing unlikely people for his great and prophetic works who like Y’shua himself were A) obedient and B) of little to no influence, and C) DIRT POOR.

    Also, as far as “sack-cloth” goes.
    You don’t just start dressing in poor man’s clothes. They just won’t “fit” your disposition. That is a blessing bestowed upon you.

    “I have not given you a spirit of fear, but of love and of a sound mind.”
    What happens when you shout “BILLIONS WILL DIE!!!!”? Fear.

    He’s not raw enough for my blood. I need someone with that divine insanity like the prophets of old 🙂


    April 6, 2008 at 1:54 pm

  41. “Why would anyone want to use anyone in Judaism as an authority in Hebrew?”

    That’s not insane enough for you Sean? 😉


    April 6, 2008 at 5:45 pm

  42. note that I specifically said “DIVINE” insanity 😉


    April 10, 2008 at 2:02 am

  43. Careful now you’re starting to sound like the ones holed up in that compound in Massachussetts……… 😉


    April 10, 2008 at 11:28 am

  44. Yeah but I don’t live in a compound, I don’t mind questions being asked and I admit when I don’t know answers.

    And I don’t have a juvenile wife. lol


    April 11, 2008 at 2:15 am

  45. Shouldn’t Daniel be posting soon???

    Daniel said, on March 19th, 2008 at 1:36 am
    The next time I will post something on this website April 17th- 23rd if we are still capable. And everyone can ridicule me if it doesn’t go down, but it will happen. Those blogs I left were not just for WW, but it was an attempt to begin to get people to start repenting.


    April 22, 2008 at 7:12 pm

  46. He didn’t leave an email address. 😦


    April 22, 2008 at 7:13 pm

  47. Daniel, Daniel, wherefore art thou Daniel?


    April 24, 2008 at 2:11 pm

  48. For anyone who can answer. I currently attend a baptist church. I’ve read “God’s Final Witness” cover to cover. “The Prophesied End Times” will be arriving tomorrow. Much of the things in God’s Final Witness, I tend to either agree with or seek further knowledge of. Most of that being the “historical” foundation of religion.

    If I am baptist, and there are Lutherans, Protestants, Catholics, Methodists, Episcopals, Judaism, Islamic, etc etc. Not all can be right. I tend to agree with Mr Weinland on that point. My question would be, “How do we know which religion is the RIGHT one”? That IS a valid point he brings up regarding the Catholic church setting up its “own” doctrine, not biblicly based (which is a historical fact) and splinter churches having their foundation in the Catholic church but not adhering to all of its doctrine (Protestants, Lutherans, Baptists).

    How do we know, as I said – I am baptist and would never tell someone YOU ARE WRONG because baptists are right. I’m not confident enough to make such a bold statement (or maybe just not spiritually mature enough). I would like to know that the doctrine I adhere to is the ONLY doctrine that is true. But with all the religions of the world … how is one to tell?


    May 2, 2008 at 4:34 am

  49. OK but here’s the thing—-Weinland would tell you that YOU are wrong, because you are Baptist—and the first thing they are going to demand you do is start tithing to the church. First 10% of your net income before they will baptize you (tithing is a prerequisite for baptism), and up to an additional 20% more some years, and then there are the special offerings on the seven annual sabbaths, and the offerings taken up just because.

    Read the books all you like. But unless you start paying in to the church, and through the nose, neither Weinland nor his elders will have the time of day for you.


    May 2, 2008 at 1:16 pm

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