Weinland Watch

Weinland Watch

A Former Member of Weinland’s UCG Congregation Speaks Out

The following info provided courtesy the user going by “Constance_Dogood” and her comment here. Looks like the tithing prerequisite for baptism isn’t the first time Weinland has tried to get his hands on church members’ money. Thanks Constance, this helps flesh out the timeline significantly. All emphasis below is mine.

Constance_Dogood said, on March 25th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

Your timeline is incomplete. Please let me help you, as I was there in 1996 through to January 2000. Ron was a very different man then judging from what sermons he gave.

In 1996, Ron annouced he was thinking of leaving the UCG (many people seem to think he came from Global or Living, but that simply was not the case). He spent weeks building his case for splitting (which was really just legitimizing his exit theology) in Sabbath sermons. The congregation was large, and it split. I remember we were in a rented hall south of Detroit for a holy day and the place was filled. Had to be some 300-400 people. Most of Toledo and a part of Detroit stayed with Ron. He actually made a convincing argument!

Before we split, he brought in David Hulme, who IMHO wasted an entire day of God’s Sabbath to talk about United’s finances to us. Oh, he quoted facts and figures and the whole megillah until I felt I was going to bleed. But he couldn’t answer the questions that plague United to this day about what was being done with the money. So we took a chance, and split.

We “hired” Ron as our minister by vote at $x thousand per year salary paid from tithes. This was NOT the COG-PKG. It was the Church of God. However, due to the fact that name had already been taken, we had to call it Church of God in Toledo (or something along those lines, I don’t care anymore). We had a very small website. Nothing impressive.

He soon introduced the “18 Truths Restored to the Church by Herbert Armstrong”, and fell more and more into Armstrong worship – always talking about ‘trunk of the tree, trunk of the tree”. He went out searching for other ministers who were like him – telling us of whom he approved and disapproved. He also set up a congregation in Cininnati which we connected to by phone, and he would travel to on Sabbath if he could. We all became involved with a churh in southern-Illinois/Missouri called the Belleville COG. Very respectable group! Things were growing, we thought.

Well, it all came to a head behind the scenes. There were rules set up so that Ron couldn’t get his hands on the money. Not that anyone distrusted him particularly, but we distrusted people in control of money – hey, we split from UCG about money, right? He wanted to start printing publications, and the church board wouldn’t go along with him. Even though we were a small group we had several hundred thousand in a church bank account. That built up and built up, but no one knew it but him and the board and whomever else was inside the circle.

We went to the Feast of Tabernacles, as far as I can gather it was in 1999, with Belleville COG. It was a great Feast from the outside. But on the inside, Ron took all the credit to himself, upsetting many people who actually did the planning. He was drawing attention to himself. That was when the people at the top knew something was up. I wish they would have told the rest of us. But hey, we probably wouldn’t have listened anyhow. We are stubborn, afterall.

Ron started giving sermons on how the minister is in charge, how God works through the minister, how God has a government and it should be followed, yada yada yada. you’ve all heard that song before. Towards the end of the year, he gave a “special sermon”. We were all to pay close attention. It was going to affect us very deeply. Well, he laid it all on the table and, to make a long story short, demanded we either follow him or get out. He even passed out a short survey which each of us had to fill out, one per household, to see what our attitudes were.

At the end of the sermon he asked us all to stay while he went over the surveys. He came back after a long while and had a hand full of envelopes. He asked two of us to pass them out to the families they were labeled for. Not everyone got one. Both of the young gentlemen who passed them out got one. I got one. Inside were letters explaining how we were no longer members in good standing, based upon our answers to the surveys. The board members were disfellowshipped, however (all but the guy who ran the sound equipment, of course because he would be needed). We all had a good long time afterwards to decide how we felt, the room split itself right down the middle by ’stay’ or ‘go’. And that was the end of the day.

The next day, I got a call from Mr. Weinland to tell me in person that he had misread my survey and he gave me the letter in error – I was now restored to member in good standing. Good for me. I told him I would be at church the next week, and we hung up. Hey.. what else was I supposed to do? I thought I’d never see the other people again.

The next Friday I got a call telling me there would be a meeting at an old fella’s house called by the former board members to explain their side of the situation. It would be before services usually started, and would not be services themselves, and everyone was encouraged to go to Ron’s service afterwards. So, ok, I thought I’d go.

Here’s the side of the story from the board members: Ron was not legally allowed to take the money according to the byrules of the church corporation. Ron very loudly and angrily accused the board of insubordination and etc by refusing to go along with his order to spend the money on publications. Ron had retained a lawyer and was actively trying to take the money. In order to do that, he had to fire the board and change the byrules. This he did by disfellowshipping them. The board said phooey on the money, this isn’t about the money, you can have it and whatever curse comes with it. If you want a more detailed explanation, search the Journal’s archives for late winter or spring 2000. There’s an article in there that’ll explain the whole thing.

[WW’s note: From the print edition of the February 2000 Journal: “A Toledo pastor disfellowships most of his board of directors, prompting many in the congregation to leave. The Journal interviews pastor Ron Weinland and two of the board members. See the print version of The Journal.”]

I decided, after hearing their side (and not that I’m easily convinced; I had personal dealings with Ron shortly before this where he absolutely crushed a church member and brought him to tears in my presence simply for asking a question), that they were credible in their story, and I would no longer attend with Ron’s group.

We had a wedding to attend of a young lady whose family was split by this – half staying with Ron and half leaving. Ron refused to talk to us. He refused to shake my hand. He even tried to avoid eye contact. Then he left immediately after the service. He said it was to spare everyone else and make it a better night for them. I still have the email conversations between the two uf us saved, where I tried to tell him in brotherly love and humility where he was going, and how he told me I was filled with a spirit of pride and elevating myself beyond where God put me by trying to teach him.

After that, we that he kicked out, divorced, started the Church of God – Toledo and are still here as a refuge to all who have been so treated and try to hold on. He went on some time later to form the COG – PKG from the website he retained.

All I have said here is true, as best as I can recall, with God and several people as my witness.

Written by weinlandwatch

March 25, 2008 at 4:36 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

28 Responses

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  1. Aggie, thanks for printing, and Connie, thanks for sharing.

    If these allegations are true as written, then this really does show what is amazingly the real spirit working inside of Ronald Weinland, one of the “two witnesses”.

    This, if true as alleged, is pride, ego, haughtiness, and greed – an angry determination and a cold spirit, and certainly not the spirit of a minister servant leader.

    Is this the behavior of a biblical figure? According to the report, “Ron refused to talk to us. He refused to shake my hand. He even tried to avoid eye contact”

    Is this the ethics of a biblical figure? According to the report, “Ron had retained a lawyer and was actively trying to take the money. In order to do that, he had to fire the board and change the byrules. This he did by disfellowshipping them.”

    Is this the attitude of a true minister? According to the report, Ron ” demanded we either follow him or get out. ”

    This is a landmark post here on Weinland Watch. I suggest you open your eyes people to the past and present attitude and actions of your “witness” – some which are now apparently coming out of the shadows – look at the predictions which are obviously not happening as he predicted – and draw your conclusions.


    March 25, 2008 at 5:30 pm

  2. Hello shadows. I completely understand your caution not blindly accepting what I’ve said here. I applaud it, in fact. This is a person’s life we’re talking about here and even though many see him as a source of pain, it is not for us to purposefully return hurt for hurt. I said what I said, even though it could hurt him, because it needed to be said. Not out of negativity, as no doubt someone out there will rush to accuse anyone of who comes forward with a story like I’ve told.

    I affirm everything I’ve said here. There is a church full of witnesses who were there and would tell you the same or worse. (Oh, I could have been more revealing with bits of personal garbage, but that would go from information to vindictiveness.) I have recorded email conversations (which I will not hand out since they would reveal who I am and only work to cause him more hurt than I already have no doubt caused), and there is the Journal article in print and on the record. I think I have sufficient evidence to back me, if I may be so bold. No disrespect intended.


    March 25, 2008 at 7:03 pm

  3. WOW! Thats VERY telling. I must admit people that I am a little disturbed at hearing all these…”START A NEW CHURCH” things… As soon as some “minister” is ousted, he STARTS, YET ANOTHER CHRUCH…To me, this is key on NOT attending these services! – As a Catholic, I hear all the time by fellow Catholics about how “they get nothing out of church” and go find some other “Church”…


    March 25, 2008 at 7:07 pm

  4. Call the undertaker thats the last nail in his coffin!


    March 25, 2008 at 8:07 pm

  5. Good grief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really feel like he is going to do it again.


    March 26, 2008 at 12:05 am

  6. Well if he cuts and runs with the money, it would be bad in the short-term. There are a lot worse things that could potentially happen, than a thousand or so people losing money they’ve already willingly given away.

    Not that I’m excusing Weinland, nor am I blaming the victims. There’s still a chance Weinland may take the coward’s way out, once he’s backed into a corner. Only the passing of the Passover weekend, including the First Day of Unleavened Bread, without incident to the members, will tell.


    March 26, 2008 at 1:00 am

  7. A search on archive.org gives the PKG’s rendition of their history:

    Dear Friend,

    This is a short history of the Church of God-PKG and the pastor Ron Weinland.

    In July of 1994 the Worldwide Church of God transferred Ron Weinland to the Toledo, Ohio, church as their new pastor. Due to major doctrinal changes made by the Worldwide Church of God, he resigned March 6, 1995, after becoming convicted that he could no longer help brethren within the organization.

    Detroit, Michigan, and Toledo, Ohio, brethren who also separated themselves from the WCG requested that he be their local pastor. The area was then incorporated as the United Church of God -Toledo. The following month, Mr. Weinland attended the first conference of elders meeting in Indianapolis, Indiana, where the United Church of God, an International Association was formed. The local area chose to associate themselves with UCG,IA and Mr. Weinland became employed by UCG,IA. The United Church of God-Toledo continued being locally incorporated and sent all Holy Day offerings and all excess tithes to the Home Office of UCG,IA.

    In January of 1997, Mr. Weinland addressed several issues of ethics concerning the administration of UCG,IA with Council Members, Home Office staff, and the conference of elders. Those issues were not being answered nor openly addressed by UCG,IA. Highest on the list of issues was the mismanagement and improper depletion of reserves by $4.5M within one year. If such things had occurred in the business world of corporations, there would have been outrage, firings, and possible prosecution of those responsible, yet there was no such response within UCG,IA.

    Mr. Weinland waited until the General Conference of Elders Meeting (March 1997) in Louisville, Kentucky, to see if those issues would be addressed. Since they were not, he again sought action from the Council of Elders to exercise proper control and management of the Home Office according to the Constitution and Bylaws, which they were to uphold. After continuing inaction from UCG,IA, he resigned May 30, 1997, as he believed he could no longer conscientiously support an administration that was unwilling to carry out their responsibilities with prompt and just stewardship.

    In early 1998 the local area changed its name from the United Church of God – Toledo to the Church of God. This was done to stop confusion with our being part of the United Church of God. In early 2000 the name was changed once again in order to add a descriptive phrase that reflected our efforts and focus. That new name is the Church of God – Preparing for the Kingdom of God or simply the Church of God – PKG.

    Ron Weinland pastors three local congregations, including Detroit, Toledo, and Cincinnati. Video and audio taped sermons of those services are sent to many scattered brethren and groups for use in their Sabbath services. In addition, we are in the beginning stages of expanding our telephone hookup for Sabbath services to scattered groups.

    The Church of God – PKG sponsors a publication called News Watch which is written by Ron Weinland. News Watch is geared to give the kind of helpful information that is needed to keep people abreast of trends within the world and church. Its purpose is to help brethren be sobered to the urgency of the times in which we live and assist them in becoming more alert and spiritually watchful. News Watch gives understanding of what has happened to us as a Church and why.

    A booklet entitled “Time Is Running Out” has recently been published. It concisely and thoroughly explains what we have been experiencing as a church and what yet lies ahead. Scattered brethren have suffered a great deal over this past decade and this booklet will help put the purpose of all that we have experienced into proper perspective in the light of prophecy that is being fulfilled. You may order your free copy of “Time Is Running Out” by filling out the booklet request form on our Publications page. ”

    Notice NONE of this is mentioned. Telling, isn’t it? Of course none of it will be mentioned, but you get my point.


    March 26, 2008 at 4:36 am

  8. Yeah it’s certainly no surprise the church has put a positive spin on the events recounted by Constance_Dogood. I don’t trust any information “from the church” as far as I can throw it…………. (Hence my skepticism over their denials about Johnny Harrell’s pre-WCG involvement in christian identity.)

    Oh and they haven’t updated that page recently—they have a book out now “Time Has ALREADY Run Out!” Talk about fear-mongering.


    March 26, 2008 at 11:30 am

  9. Ya know… most of that history of COG-PKG is fairly accurate. Highly edited and glossed over, but accurate.

    I wasn’t there when the Toledo and Detroit congregations “requested” Ron as their UCG minister, so I should verify that and get back to you. It could be true. He was a much different person back then. I believe he was the WCG minister in the area, and he pretty much just stayed on. But, like I said, I will check on that and get back.

    I was fuzzy in my memory about the timing of the part where “Mr. Weinland waited until the General Conference of Elders Meeting (March 1997)”. Now that I’ve read it I remember that more clearly. After that was the spring holy days, the very time I mentioned in my history post when I said “I remember we were in a rented hall south of Detroit for a holy day and the place was filled. Had to be some 300-400 people.” That was when he told us he had made his decision to leave.

    Now, about that – weinlandwatch posted elsewhere that Ron’s signed resignation from UCG was dated December 2006: “Weinland was then a minister for two years in the United Church of God, and publicly resigned in December of 1996, reported in both The Journal and The Servants News (a publication geared at disaffected Church of God ministers who still hold to Armstrongism). Weinland is reported in TSN as sending the resignation letter in January, and the date on the letter printed by The Journal is Dec. 27, 1996.”
    I don’t personally know if this was accurate, weinlandwatch. I don’t read TSN or the Journal. (The thing is – if he resigned, how did he get to go to the Conference, and why would David Hulme show up?) But if it is, that would prove to be just as important as any thing in my post in showing what kind of person he was/is. It’s a surprise even to me. And I was there!! He planned, months ahead of time, then resigned, and only told us when it was in his time. wow. He told us he was thinking about it for months (exit theology), but he never said he went and did it until the DoUB.

    What an exciting life I’ve had!


    March 26, 2008 at 12:36 pm

  10. I think the church’s version of events being “highly edited and glossed over” is very telling. Those are indeed the dates that are listed in both The Journal and The Servants’ News. I listed both dates because they were at variance, and surely the truth lies somewhere in between.

    That he planned it months ahead of time, then only told the sheep when he was ready to go ahead with things does not surprise me in the slightest. That was typical of the Worldwide Church of God ministry, right up to (and possibly including) Joseph Tkach Jr.

    After all, how many congregations outside of Atlanta and the surrounding American states really knew about “the changes” before Senior’s sermon at the end of December in 1994? Mine certainly didn’t.


    March 26, 2008 at 12:43 pm

  11. Preemptive action, then announcing it as a fait accompli was a common Worldwide Church of God tactic. During one of the “financial emergencies in the Work” the ministers were asked to send in all local funds to Pasadena headquarters. All of the funds belonging to youth groups, singles clubs, Spokesman club, etc. were appropriated and sent in. The next Sabbath the minister informed us of the emptying of the funds and said he knew we (the congregation) wouldn’t have any problem with it because he knew we were “all behind God’s Work”.


    March 26, 2008 at 5:45 pm

  12. Legal disclaimer: The above comment is what is being left on the open WeinlandWatch message boards; as with every comment here, each comment is solely the opinion of the individual commenting.

    Notably, the “agape love” Tom speaks of Weinland promoting is the same kind of “agape love” WCG ministers promoted, back in the day; members were exhorted to have agape love for other congregation members, but there was no way we could have agape love for others outside of the church, that would have been unpardonable. Thanks for the input Tom, I have heard the allegation made before (that Weinland sold a house the Erie congregation built for him), but I did not have the specific details. Thanks again!


    March 27, 2008 at 1:14 am

  13. WW,

    Would you happen to know Zahyit. Its kind of interesting that your address database is linked.


    March 27, 2008 at 2:31 am

  14. Nope. Looks like WordPress’s automatic relational-generator decided to link it, it’s definitely not by choice. 🙂


    March 27, 2008 at 2:48 am

  15. Believe it or not. Your address data base is only linked to Zahyit.


    Ironwolf also belongs to WordPress but is not linked to your account and therefore the name and address is not regenerated.

    I as well as others use an alias when responding and making comment to various blogs.

    The tip off is that I can insert any name in your field and submit a comment and then go to Zahyit’s site and all of my information including the new name and web address is inserted. However, I have went to 4 other sites with blogs who are associated with WordPress and they are not connected and these address sites do not change my settings. I just find this interesting. Zahyit has an interesting take on Weinland. He use to know Armstrong personallly.


    March 27, 2008 at 3:16 am

  16. These post are very interesting because Weinland appears to have a history of defrauding his people and not being truthful to them. As a member of the Erie congregation, while Weinland was a WCG minister he was not truthful to our membership when he asked many of us to help build him a home. He used a variety of skilled members to complete such work as electrical, plumbing, masonary, constructing and roofing. He did pay for some of this work, but many just donated their time or were paid little. Consequently, Weinland was told months earlier, maybe upto a year and a half, that he would be transferred to Toledo, OH. He never mentioned this to his congregation and various members worked very hard at constructing this house. After the completion of this home in Erie, Weinland lived in it for only a couple months before telling the congregation that he would be leaving. Weinland sold this home for a significant profit. In many of the sermons over the last couple of years he has made declarations that God had blessed him with the equity that he was able to accumulate by selling various homes. Many of the members thought that this kind of behavior was odd, because he had not demonstrated this kind of behavior to his followers in the past, until he was leaving them. This is similiar to the above posts where members were disfellowshiped by means of a survey. How tacky!!!! He treats people kindly, until they no longer meet his expectations or are standing in his way. Is this a man of LOVE? Weinland always told us that we should be striving to create a “Godly” kind of love. I believe he called this “Agape love” which we can only develop with God’s Holy Spirit. I guess he must be lacking some “Agape.”

    This is a revised comment, please remove the other comment.


    March 27, 2008 at 12:01 pm

  17. “The tip off is that I can insert any name in your field and submit a comment and then go to Zahyit’s site and all of my information including the new name and web address is inserted.”

    It sounds like a cookie is getting carried over from my blog to that one…could be because we are both using standard (WP-supplied) templates. I wouldn’t worry about it. But trust me I have nothing to do with “zahyit” the first time I ever heard of it was when you mentioned it. 😦


    March 27, 2008 at 6:08 pm

  18. Hi, Iv’e never done this before so if I get it wrong plese excuse 🙂 Constance said >>I don’t personally know if this was accurate, weinlandwatch. I don’t read TSN or the Journal. (The thing is – if he resigned, how did he get to go to the Conference, and why would David Hulme show up?) << I would like to understand how DH would show up and not tell the congregation Weinland had resigned!!!


    March 27, 2008 at 7:11 pm

  19. SATURDAY 2:30 EST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are we chatting again???


    March 27, 2008 at 8:27 pm

  20. Don’t worry. I am one of the “good guys”. I was asked about Weinland from one of my subscribers and up until that time, I had never heard about him and his claims. Although, as a Theologian, I am familiar with some of the history about the WCG, and I thought I should at least check out Ron Weinland. At the time I was writing a series about Revelation 2 and 3, and showing how important it is to not be duped by religion of any flavor, but instead to recognize it for what it really is and be an Overcomer. For those in the clutches of Armstrong’s clones, please understand that the WCG, and its offshoots, and Weinland’s rants is something that must be Overcome. When you can escape from the Supercult, of which Armstrongism is a small part, then you can begin to find the Truth and enter into a true Spiritual life, FREE from religion. It takes courage to try to untie the Gordian Knot of religious slavery, but you may need to take Alexander’s approach and simply whack it with a sword and move on.!


    March 28, 2008 at 2:29 am

  21. Two answers in one response: I am busy with Real World stuff right now and the blog is in the capable hands of J from Shadows of WCG; I will pop in from time to time when I get the chance but the Banhammer of Doom is in J’s possession for the moment (so behave yourselves people).

    Saturday I will try and make it to the chat. Real life as I say intervenes unfortunately.

    Zahyit, nice to “meet” you so to speak, nice to know you are one of the good guys! I really like your approach to “the Gordian knot of religion! 🙂


    March 28, 2008 at 3:36 pm

  22. Hi Toby. I will try to remember to speak with some people tomorrow at my supercult. I hope their memories will fill in where I come up short.


    March 29, 2008 at 3:33 am

  23. Constance,

    From what i know or heard from Weinlands BEST friend and follower he only had 10 people at one time and built it up. He didn’t have 300 people until around 2004 and it hasn’t grown very much since. Is he 10 people version not true? I know the 300 is. Becuase we never had 300 members in the church until 2004. Now that is just from Ron becuase he was so excited to have 300.


    April 25, 2008 at 4:24 am

  24. x-cog-pkg,

    The timeframe I was referring to up there was well before 2004. He kicked out half the church (anyone who he perceived would be against his direct control of the money) on February 5, 2000. What he was left with was more than 10 people. Probably around 20 or 30 what with the people in Detroit, Toledo, and Cincinnati combined. I don’t know the numbers, though.
    BEFORE that even, when he was a United minister, he had a massive congregation between Detroit and Toledo combined. That was back some time around 1996-1997.


    May 5, 2008 at 3:10 pm

  25. Wouldn’t it be amazing if someday we learned that when John praised the Ephesian church for trying those that say they are apostles and are not , it was talking about Paul? John did not abide Paul nor Paul him as we read in Galatians. Paul was oft in Ephesus but notes that later, “all those in asia turned aside from him.” It never stuck him that perhaps all can’t be wrong. Ephesus is in Asia of course. Ron may get the same experience.

    MT Hall

    May 5, 2008 at 6:00 pm

  26. As Bereans Did reminded me of an unfinished piece of business I never did get around to, with regards to Constance’s anecdote. All emphasis below is my own.

    The following are transcribed from hand-written notes [I have the scans of the originals] taken from a private meeting called by the former board members of the Church of God, Inc. the weekend after Ron Weinland disfellowshipped them. This was February 12, 2000 as best as I can gather.

    The following is the account of Elder #1:

    Ron Weinland wanted to form another organization solely for the scattered [former members of the Worldwide Church of God]

    The night of the social at Otsego, Ron was questioned by the board as to why he wanted the changes. He could not answer, and became upset. Terry Wrozack was to write up new by-laws.

    Again, the following Tuesday [board meeting], Ron left before the new by-laws could be brought up. Elder #1 asked Ron not to cancel the trip to Texas, because Ron’s doing that would cause division.

    Ron again confronted Elder #1, claiming there was a “spirit” [attitude] with Elder #1 and his wife. Ron had to leave Elder #1’s house. Ron disfellowshipped Elder #1 after Elder #1 told him he could not support Ron because in Elder #1’s opinion what Ron wanted – and how Ron could not explain himself – was wrong.

    The following is the account of Elder #2:

    Terry Wrozack told Elder #2 that changes were coming.

    The Tuesday night [board] meeting went on for a long time. Ron proposed an old WCG style of government where Ron had all the power, and the board was removed from its responsibility.

    Elder #2 believes there is government, but government is 1) God’s Law, and 2) Love.

    Ron said that all he wanted was for the funds from the scattered brethren to be written into the by-laws as being under his control. Elder #2 stated that he was unsure if this was all that Ron wanted. Terry Wrozack asked if Ron believed the local structure was wrong. Ron said he hadn’t thought about it. That was about the end of the meeting.

    Elder #2 and Terry both helped to write the new by-laws

    When Ron left WCG, the original by-laws were intended to prevent one man’s having power like in the WCG. The new by-laws are written to give Ron power like in the WCG

    Elder #2 speculates that Ron made up the probation thing [with which he declared several members of the congregation to be “members not in good standing”], based on the suspension policy of Mr. Fiedler [a former WCG minister in the Toledo, Ohio area]

    Ron set a list of voters, then removed all from the list who opposed [his changes and plans].

    Elder #2 mentioned that this was potentially illegal. And that Ron should call a board meeting. Afterwards, Elder #2 told Ron that he could no longer support him.

    A separation agreement was put together so that both sides could have a peaceable split, time to think, and a possible reconciliation. 1) Ron would resign [as minister] from the Church of God, Inc, and form his own corporation. 2) Ron would keep $x of the banked tithes, COG, Inc would keep $x (which was the approximate amount collected from the Toledo members). 3) Ron could keep usage of the Garden Room [where the Toledo congregation met]

    Ron retained a law firm to guarantee his interests

    Ron decided to send out a letter to everyone claiming the board was disfellowshipped and that all of the problems were solved, there would be no split.

    Ron, on Wednesday night, said that he wasn’t resigning – the board was. And Ron is keeping everything.

    Terry and Elder #2 negotiated a resolution: the “splitters” [who weren’t splitting, but were kicked out] keep $x, a tape recorder, and a sound system. Terry brought this to Ron.

    Ron called Elder #2 asking for certain things to be delivered to him by Wednesday. Elder #2 agreed. This was good for both sides.

    Ron called soon after and was abusive to Elder #2, saying if people didn’t do certain things in 24 hours (and Ron was not specific about exactly what) he would not give the “splitters” $x. Ron said it was a gift, and if we didn’t do as he said, he wouldn’t give it.

    Elder #2 then spoke to some attorneys the next day. Elder #2 got an attorney to write an opinion that according to the still existing board rules and by-laws the minister cannot do what Ron has been doing. And that the original separation agreement must be adhered to. And that the disfellowshipped board members could not be disfellowshipped. (This was Thursday night.)

    Ron spent Thursday night, Friday, and Friday night with his lawyers. We do not know how he pays for them.

    This information conclusively proves Constance’s affirmations.


    May 5, 2008 at 6:13 pm

  27. Now that is an interesting kettle of fish, is it not?

    You know what occurs to me? When it said, “Ron said it was a gift, and if we didn’t do as he said, he wouldn’t give it.” That reminds me of Ron’s offer to return excess donations by Pentecost IF you play by HIS rules. It must be another “gift”.


    May 6, 2008 at 4:43 pm

  28. And I have just heard through the sewing circle that, how Ron tells it, HE was the hero and everyone else was trying to steal the money. HE tried to keep the group together and warn everyone. And HE was the one who was kicked out.

    I was attending his church in those days, as is obvious from above. Ron’s version is NOT at all how it happened. If it were, that would have been the talk back in that day. It would have been in his messages. At the very least, I would have some sort or form of memory of that story. Today was the first I heard it told his way.
    I was one of the people declared “member not in good standing” BY RON on the Sabbath of February 5, 2000, AFTER we took a survey so he could determine who was for him and who was against. He called me the next day and told me he “misread” my answers, and restored me to “member in good standing” status. That is specifically why I left his group. I speak every week with one of the gentleman who handed out those surveys. Ron was no victim of anything but his own pride.


    May 6, 2008 at 4:54 pm

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