Archive for April 2008
Is it me, or was the sermon on the 26th a rehash of every Last Day of Unleavened Bread sermon I have ever heard in my life? Trust me, it sounded like a sermon that could have been delivered without a single alteration, sometime in 1982. Download here or stream here.
Good news for those wanting to keep a close eye on Weinland and his group: The only key part of the sermon is the first fifteen minutes (this is what will be edited out of the sermon before it goes up on the church’s web site). The rest of the sermon was an absolutely classic WCG Days of Unleavened Bread closer.
Many many thanks and a lot of gratitude to Shadows of WCG‘s “J” for transcribing the first fifteen minutes for me. I know just how mentally exhausting that actually is. Many thanks to “J”! The complete transcript of the first fifteen minutes is below. Ambassador Watch also has a comment on “The Weiner Effect”.
“J” has also written an open letter to Weinland and the elders of the CoG-PKG. I have serious doubts any of the elders will even read it; if they do, it will probably be with an eye towards how this is going to negatively affect their all-important cash-flow.
As Bereans Did, a biblically-based blog that is debunking Weinland from the canonical christian scriptures, also has a post about this sermon.
There is also a post at Don’t Drink the Flavor-Aid about this sermon. Bob Thiel, Living Church of God apologist who maintains the CoGWriter blog, also has a post about this sermon. While we disagree theologically, Thiel and I both have the same thoughts with regards to the CoG-PKG, that it is bad news, and should be avoided. When another Church of God group is warning against the PKG, that should be a sign heralding the end, in my opinion—the end of Weinland’s group.
But let’s let Weinland speak for himself.
“Well the Harrells, Laura, and I had a safe trip to Israel and safe return, and really be glad to be back in the USA, let me say. Uh, I don’t plan on telling much about the trip right now, I may mention some things as we go along here from time to time but I don’t want to take away from other things here in the sermon and so forth. But again I imagine I will say some things, uh, in some of the sermon from time to time, when it comes into mind when it has the appropriate connection.
“But we’re in Detroit today, Detroit, Michigan…Not knowing how things are going to transpire, how things were going to take place, where we’re going to be from one time to another, and uh, we are very unique in the sense that, uh, we go day by day and week by week, especially right now, so, anyway, um…
“I can’t stress enough how glad I am to get back here to the States! That part of the world is not the best part of the world to be in during the Days of Unleavened Bread and Passover season. And maybe I’ll make some comments later on, but anyway.
“I thought I’d mention here how I’ve been amazed at how God is working things out, and uh, we had a – close to double the traffic on the website last weekend, last Sabbath, especially, which we knew would be higher because of the rumblings going on, some of the curiousity, some of the different attitudes and so forth that are so prevalent out there, that we had a few thousand more coming to the website on the Sabbath than normal, so compared to the average before that.
“So some were really stirred up and curious over what would be said, obviously concerning the 17th, some had ears to hear, and obviously, there were a lot that didn’t. And that’s the way it’s always been, and those being drawn by God through the normal process obviously were able to hear it, when I think about what Daniel said when he said there are things we would understand and there’s only one reason and that’s because of God’s Spirit leading, guiding, directing and working with us, and that’s the only way anyone can really hear, spiritually, what was being given.
“So thought I’d mention here from all the reports we’ve been receiving back, it sounds like the Passover weekend last week was successful, in the many areas where brethren were able to come together, it’s always exciting that we can still do those things for a time here, and I am very excited by that, that we have opportunities right now, because many years ago we felt when the final three and a half years came that at the very beginning it would be nuclear weapons at the very start. That it would be a great war in the very beginning and great destruction from the get-go. And I made comments in times past wouldn’t it be a wonderful blessing if we didn’t start out that way. And quite candidly, even during the first four trumpets. It doesn’t affect the rest of the world the same way it’s going to affect this country, Canada, and some of the other Israelite nations, scattered Israelites nations in the beginning, and the longer that period is, the better it is. The longer it is until the fifth trumpet blows, which as everyone understands is when the ten nations come together in Europe, the more that’s postponed, the longer it is, in our thinking anyway, those things have already been mapped out long ago, it’s just that we don’t know what they are specifically, that the longer that is, the better it is. There’s going to be enough hardship in this world, in fact I don’t know how some of you felt last week but uh... as things get closer… it’s a horrifying thing to contemplate and to realize what man is going to have to go through…
“Because of the period we’re in right now, possibly next Sabbath or the Sabbath after that…
“Now that we’ve gone past the 17th, God has made a few things clearer, and um, going to be very much to the point about all this, and as everyone knows, we are not going to have a gathering for the Feast of Tabernacles this year, just as I’ve continued to say since this past feast, as I’ve said in the past as well, some may be able to get together in some areas for a little bit on the High Days or on the Sabbath, just as you are able to now. In some areas. So, we don’t know. We have to wait until God shows us. And that’s exactly how things are going to go all the way through this process. We’re going to know as we go along here a little more specifically, on some timing, I’ll discuss these things later on, again, we realize maybe some will have that opportunity, but I do want to be clear here that because of this last Sabbath, God has made it abundantly clear, and it’s also posted on the site, I wanna clear some of this up, I’ve talked about the 45 days and the 90 days, that was done on the James Whale show, primarily to give an idea here on the general timing of events for his sake and the listening audience, we see how quickly he got onto that one, I’m joking, he didn’t, he never could get it, toward the very end I think he finally got it, you know, when I was saying 45 to 90 days. I want to make it real clear. Nothing will happen specifically about the second trumpet obviously until after Pentecost… so we are going to have the opportunity to get together again on Pentecost, and we are planning that, so again, I can’t plan certain things until I know, What happened last Sabbath, I didn’t know what the 17th was going to bring fully, by any measure, but uh, it is very clear that we will not have anything happen on a massive scale to prevent us from coming together on Pentecost. So all the Elders in all the areas that set up locations, we’re going to use the same locations again as a whole, so I’d like to ask all the Elders to please make plans accordingly, and to rent the facilities as necessary because that is a Sabbath, and High Day the following day on Sunday, so that gives us another opportunity to do like we did last weekend. So we are going to have that opportunity again… We are going to have the opportunity to come together again on Pentecost.”
Compare and contrast this with the following quote from Three More Weeks:
“If by Pentecost it is not powerfully and abundantly clear that there has been a great deal of destruction that will clearly encompass a third of all plant life in the US and at least the clear results of this mingled with blood the death of very much animal life and the beginning of large numbers of human life then I will stop preaching. Just so all the critics and everyone out there will understand. I am true to my word in these things. OK? And for all the critics if by the end of July and most likely around Pentecost if nothing has clearly caused great destruction and death I will make it very clear that I was a false prophet. I will do exactly what I said I would do on aaaaall those interviews that I have held. To do less. Well. Would be quite insane.”
Shadows of WCG’s J recently showed me an article he wrote a year ago on Implanted Perceptions. A lot of it rings very, very true with me as someone born and raised in the Worldwide Church of God. A lot of the points made in the article sound as though they will ring true for members of many of the Church of God splinters that are out there. Give it a read. See what you think. If you’re ex-WCG, it’s guaranteed to at least give you a chill down the spine and a little twinge of “Remember when….?”
Remember when we believed we would never grow old?
Remember when we believed we would live in Petra for three and a half years?
Remember when we would watch the news and try to figure out how prophecy was unfolding before our eyes?
Remember when we would look at “the worldly” with a mixture of superiority laced with pity?
Remember when we would feel so “godly” if we were doing exactly what the church said? No matter if the church changed its mind from week to week, on the same items?
Implanted perceptions. They are a powerful thing.
J, over at Shadows of WCG, has your month-end round-up on the various splinters. Thanks for the kind mention of WW, and I have to say, he’s not the first person to suggest I focus my energies on the other splinters, once Weinland’s finally implodes (if it does indeed implode, as all signs are indicating it might). I don’t know. Dealing with this one has been exhausting enough! 🙂
And speaking of everyone’s no-longer-favourite False Prophet, still no word from the Non-witnessing Weinlands. Time, and the sermon tomorrow, will tell for certain what effect the leaking of “plan B”, combined with Weinland’s further spiritualization of the first trumpet on the 19th, will have on the few hundred or so remaining members of the sect.
Oh and let’s not forget the “speedily slow deaths” all of Weinland’s mockers are destined for. As Mike from Don’t Drink the Flavor-Aid pointed out on AW recently, given Weinland’s track record for prophecy to date, if we keep mocking him, we should all live as long as Methuselah!
It has been over a week now, since poor Ronald Weinland felt agitated on the banks of the Red Sea, and subsequently spent two-and-a-half hours the following day cursing his mockers, and pleading for “the faith and the patience of the saints”. No one has heard from either of the Weinlands since. The two end-time witnesses. Let me repeat that for you, just in case you missed the point.
The two end-time witnesses from the book of Revelation have been completely silent for five days.
Shadows of WCG’s J asks the salient and related question: Where’s The Witnessing?
Now to be entirely fair, according to one commenter, Weinland prefers to spend the spring holy days in the Netherlands or Belgium. Funny that this should coincide with that other spring holy day, tax season, and Weinland’s alleged foreign accounts may very well be getting a top-up at the same time. Nothing like killing two birds with one stone, eh Ronnie?
Mike, from Don’t Drink the Flavor-Aid, informs us: Do You Yahoo?? No Salvation For You! Apparently the sponsored ads (paid for by the members’ tithes) are still working; only now the church-sponsored ads are not being returned in connection to specific searches for the name “Ronald Weinland”.
“Plan B” is looking more and more likely, as time wears on.
Daniel said, on March 19th, 2008 at 1:36 am:
The next time I will post something on this website April 17th- 23rd if we are still capable. And everyone can ridicule me if it doesn’t go down, but it will happen. Those blogs I left were not just for WW, but it was an attempt to begin to get people to start repenting.
Hey kiddo. I know you’re still out there. I see that you have been keeping up-to-date on the blog. It is past the 23rd now, and we still haven’t heard from you. I promise you, no one is going to ridicule you, because we have all been where you were before. We were all true believers, once upon a time, and we had to re-evaluate our lives when the kingdom we were promised never did come. No matter how many physical, financial, and emotional sacrifices we made.
I know you probably feel bad, you are disappointed, and upset with yourself, and questioning everything. This is a good thing, regardless of what you have been told, about “just knowing” that things are true. Asking questions is what will set you free.
I may be wrong. You may still be laughing at us, and willing to wait another 45-90 days as Weinland has instructed you to. If you want to post and tell us that as well, feel free. No one will jump down your throat, and I promise you I will delete anything that seems disrespectful to you, if you are still a believing member of the church. Tell us how wrong we are, tell us how we need to repent, tell us you still believe Weinland and his wife are the two witnesses in the book of Revelation. Say what you like.
Just please tell us whether or not you are OK. Please?
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From Shadows of WCG new YouTube Channel, “Facts About Ronald Weinland’s Prophecies.”
Posted here by the user known only as “w”.
“W” first appeared on the old Ironwolf forum, and has long been thought to be a church insider of some sort, based on the information he has provided to the Internet forums about activities inside the church. My responses are in brackets in bold.
“This is the back up plan for Cog-pkg if Ron is not who he says to the church by the middle of July 2008. All these ideas were released within the last couple days. So, this plan is not set in stone. This is the plan released to a select few members for input if the 45-90 day prophecy fails to come to true.”
“w” just clarified the origins of this plan here:
“The e-mail was not sent out to more than ten people, so not even all the elders know. (I wasn’t supposed to receive the e-mail, so my identity is still hidden) A few lay people did receive the e-mail too. Weinland & the others are still waiting on the 45 to 90 days to finish before moving forward. If a major natural disaster or actual terror event occurs before the middle of July 2008, then all bets are off. Keep in mind these individuals actually do believe in the two books(including Weinland).”
- Series of sermons stating why & what happened, including repentance by Weinland in late July 2008. [Pre-meditated repentance? Or a repentance coerced by threat of coup d’etat?]
- Appointment of Harrell as head of the church(of course God/Christ above him in their organization) and Matthews in Australia. [We figured that anyway.]
- Others that are considered preaching elders will become evangelists. [Better kiss those asses rosy boys! Promotions are in the offing!]
- New elders would either start to preaching in their areas in the months afterwards or in 2009. [Better get in early, if you want to be in the Levitical chain of command at all, n00bs.]
- Harrell, Matthews. Wroyzek(sp?) [Read: The Three Stooges] would take over the weekly sabbath and annual holy day sermons, beginning in August 2008. [Can’t’cha just picture these good ol’ boys rubbing their hands together in glee at the thought of finally being able to brow-beat the brethren themselves? There is an upside to this for us demons as well: No more sermons that are all Weinland, all the time. Although Matthews preaches as though time stood still circa 1985, in my opinion. And Harrell really needs to drop the “Christ our older brother” schtick, if he wants to retain any credibility whatsoever.]
- Weinland cease preaching and would no longer be the pastor in any capacity after August 1, 2008(depending on any legal matters) Harrell would take over at that time. [“Depending on any legal matters”? What the hell does that mean?! If he’s sued for the tithe monies, he won’t forfeit his position? Or will he forfeit his position so he can’t be sued for the tithe monies?]
- The new theme would be most of the same, except that we are still in Ladiocea, but the final 3 1/2 years is coming soon, but not September 2011. [So are they going to imitate Clever Gerry Flurry, who is predicting another Great Trib. to hit us in 2009, or are they going to go the route of Spanky Meredith, and fudge on the “five to ten to fifteen years” front?]
Still no word on who exactly concocted this not-so-brilliant “plan of attack”, no word on who exactly “the select few members” actually are, and I really do have to wonder if this does not suggest some form of insurgency in the ranks? This new information offers several possible conclusions:
Plan A: The Three Stooges got tired of being in silent film, and wanted to move into the world of the talkies. This suggests that ministry in the higher echelons of the church have known all along that Weinland and Wife were both certifiable. Harrell, Matthews, and Wrozeck have just been waiting for the opportunity to strike. Think there’s any gold left in those disillusioned sheeple, boys?
Plan B: This has all been concocted in Weinland’s mind from the beginning, and it is his well-planned-out safety valve. (This plan requires that Weinland’s 19th April sermon, which was clearly screwloose, was either intentionally so or Ronnie was feeling the Jerusalem Syndrome hit a little too hard while he was preaching.)
Plan C: This heretofore-thought-unsinkable ship has finally hit the damn iceberg already, and it’s every ministurd for himself.
I wonder if the Three Stooges plan on ruling jointly? What the hell would that monarchy look like? Also, re: “the new theme would be most of the same”, does that mean they will retain Weinland’s oddball unitarianism, or are they going to go back to their binitarian roots?
Taking wagers now! Place your bets now ladies and gentlemen! The odds are long and it looks like this outfit is getting ready to cash in its chips!