Weinland Watch

Weinland Watch

TIMELINE ONE: The Beginning of the End: RW Sermon April 19, 2008: “It Has Begun”

Note: This post has been “stuck” to the front page. Please scroll down to see the latest posts.

Update: Thanks to Ambassador Watch for the link.

Takeaway quote from this sermon:

0:17:05 RW Sermon April 19, 2008 “It Has Begun”

“My first exercise in use of power is to you mockers. It begins with you. You will be the first to experience [it]. You don’t have to wait long. For those who mock from this day forward, by what you say against god’s people, for what you say against god’s truths, you will suffer from sickness that will eat you from the inside out and you will die. Your death will not be quick.”

Charming. And if you want to hear all two hours and seventeen minutes of it, it can be heard here or downloaded here. So what did Weinland have to say that promised to be so important in his blog post on April 18, 2008?

The opening hymn (only one) is a repeat of the Passover hymn In Thy Loving Kindness Lord. The chorale version. Weinland did not sing this time, thankfully.

The wife is the second witness. We knew that already. Here’s the thing though. Her job as a witness is to “witness” (i.e., watch) Weinland “witness” (i.e., prophesy). Yes you read that correctly.

Oh and the sound of the first trumpet [“blown” on April 17, 2008] was only heard by truly converted members of god’s church who listen to god’s words. (I.e., who listen to Weinland’s sermons.) Only if you have ears to hear, that is. He did say at one point that those who mock him do not have ears. As in “they do not have ears” full stop.

And the powers that have been manifested in these two witnesses? Weinland’s first act as one of the two witnesses of the book of Revelation and the spokesman for both is to call forth cancer on all of those who mock him. We will die slowly, suffering from the inside out. Yes it’s harsh, but that is the love of God, and how he will prove himself and his wife as the two witnesses.

The bulk of the sermon was devoted to those who mocked him in the past, will mock him in the future, and who are mocking him now. Those listening who do not have ears, etcetera. After an hour and a half of basically pleading with people to believe him (or die a slow painful death), he starts on the Alexander Hyslop/Two Babylons schtick that follows classic Armstrongism. Interspersed with this was the rock-solid concrete dates Weinland has already set.

Oh yes, and the first trumpet being fire mingled with blood is now going to be the sound of the second trumpet, within 45-90 days. So the first trumpet is 45-90 days, which is the trumpet that only those truly converted to Weinland’s church can hear, and the death, destruction, drought and diseases, will be the second trumpet. Weinland also spoke at great length about the fifth trumpet. A sign that he is jumping ahead once again? The old bait-and-switch? Perhaps. This sermon makes it more than clear that he will not step down, as he promised “by Pentecost or July” [Pentecost was June 8, 2008], as the proof in the pudding is supposed to be the second trumpet, which is supposed to sound (with death, destruction, drought and diseases) in 45-90 days or “as god progressively reveals”.

Listening to the sermon, it is clear that the only thing to be felt for Weinland, and for his followers, is the fervent hope that his followers realize exactly what their witness is made of, and stop sending the church money. The hope is that the clear delusion of this sermon will have members voting with their feet, not just lack of tithes, as so many did in ’75. Weinland’s small church cannot afford a mass exodus, however, which is a good thing. Anyone remaining in the church after this sermon will have been quite thoroughly indoctrinated by Lifton’s thought reform techniques. There is no other logical reason for members to stay, although Weinland did make repeated pleas towards “the patience and the faith of the saints”.


Written by weinlandwatch

April 19, 2008 at 8:45 pm

Posted in Uncategorized

46 Responses

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  1. so the first trumpet is now suppose to be the second trumpet? what the heck????????? why is he changing everything?? what is suppose to happen in the first trumpet??? nothing???. he is giving himself more wiggle room so he wont have to step down by pentecost. another red flag. hes not gonna step down and keep changing dates to make more money off his supporters who are clearly brainwashed by this idiot.


    April 19, 2008 at 9:03 pm

  2. I think it’s worse than that. It is quite clear, from today’s sermon, that Weinland actually believes it himself. I waffled back and forth on whether he was in it only for the money, but clearly it isn’t about the money for Weinland, at least it isn’t about the money anymore (although I’m certain the elders will try and get more out of the membership, not to mention “the work” that Weinland and Wife are just embarking upon now). He really truly believes that he and his wife are the two witnesses of Revelation, and he is going to every length to try and “prove” that his delusions are real, which includes swapping the “trumpets” (the first for the second and the second for the fifth), and moving the dates further ahead. I feel badly for him, and for his family. He really believes it.


    April 19, 2008 at 9:10 pm

  3. Having listened to it, I agree. RW spent most of the time on the 2nd & 5th trumpets.

    1st trumpet is destruction of 1/3 of vegetation — somehow pope will cause this
    2nd trumpet is nukes in port cities
    3rd trumpet is nukes in inland cities
    5th trumpet is the beast brought together by the pope.

    Look out for Catholics buying lots of Roundup.


    April 19, 2008 at 9:26 pm

  4. Great website WW!! It sure is ironic that to “prove” he is a witness he chose a disease that would take months to years to even show up.


    April 19, 2008 at 9:31 pm

  5. Slow death by cancer, eh?

    I love it when God’s healers, witnesses, and all-round loonies pick something like “cancer”, the second most rampant disease in our day and age, and use that as a trump card.

    What a sick bastard. Marcion was right—this god he serves is more akin to that other made-up fellow, Mr. Sa-TAN.


    April 19, 2008 at 9:59 pm

  6. you know… I was just in Home Depot today buying Roundup….. look out world..


    April 19, 2008 at 10:51 pm

  7. I have only one question, where is the “ad campaign” that was suppose to start this past week. Oops! Ron overlooked that!!! Never mentioned it in his sermon.


    April 19, 2008 at 11:56 pm

  8. I want to know where the film crew that was supposed to be following them around Jerusalem was!!

    Don’t skip the part near the beginning where Weinland talks about feeling “agitated” while they were standing at the Red Sea where David did, just after sunset on the 17th.

    Weinland sounded tired throughout the sermon. I feel badly for the poor old guy. Looks like it wasn’t just about the money after all.


    April 20, 2008 at 1:02 am

  9. I listened to the sermon, and from what I was hearing, apart from mainly the people following RW, humanity it seems really doesn’t seem to have much choice. The way Rw was talking it sounds more like we are the pawns and the prize in a spiritual war between satan and God(at least RW’s version).

    Revelation is a mysterious book to begin with, and the more I listen to RW the more mysterious it seems to get. I thought his job as end-time profit and witness was to make more clear.

    I was wondering as well; “Does the Bible he reads from not state in Rev.11 that the two witnesses are to men like the I read does?”

    Brian of the North

    April 20, 2008 at 2:15 am

  10. The title on the PKG site is Passover 2008, but’s not the same sermon as the “passover 2008” sermon here……

    What happened, WW?


    April 20, 2008 at 3:05 am

  11. The Passover 2008 service is missing the end part where Weinland sings.


    April 20, 2008 at 3:08 am

  12. Are you sure that’s the only difference?


    April 20, 2008 at 3:10 am

  13. i was listening to the 18th from the PKG site..sorry….. I am not even drunk.


    April 20, 2008 at 3:13 am

  14. OK folks, i am having a hard time figuring a few things out here on the replies. It seemed i lost a couple i wanted to respond to. A thank you for the welcome. BUT apparently along with my ears pkg took, i guess it took some of my brain too!!!
    I will figure this out. If not i will e-mail on how to do this. The person i e-mailed before was awesome. (he is from weinlandwatch@)


    April 20, 2008 at 3:13 am

  15. Sorry. There was a mixup. JimmyH was referring to the PASSOVER service, which has indeed been altered (as I noted here). I will email you a copy of your comment.


    April 20, 2008 at 3:15 am

  16. Hi X-CoG-PKG, welcome to the club! 😀 I’m sorry you have family still in. I have to say, after listening to today’s sermon, I really believe Weinland is drinking his own Kool-Aid. I feel sorry for him.


    April 20, 2008 at 3:22 am

  17. weinlandwatch:
    I figured Jimmyh listened to the passover. Becuase i tried that at first also, then i remembered when i was in, the time to click in for services.
    Weinlandwatch has been hitting everything right on. I am just glad i am not alone with this thinking. I like it because it is the fact. Nothing phoney on your comments. To me i see it as a healing for those who came out.. thank you..


    April 20, 2008 at 3:26 am

  18. Believe it or not, other than a few rough bumps, it has been really good for me to exorcise my past with the church too. So, hopefully, everybody wins! 🙂


    April 20, 2008 at 3:28 am

  19. Weinlandwatch you are funny. I know he is drinking something and i think it is called , “pride,pride,pride” or another one of his favorite drinks, “haughty,haughty,haughty”. Or even “puke,puke,puke:. Those are his favorites.
    Thanks for the welcome….


    April 20, 2008 at 3:29 am

  20. Oh I would have agreed with you, even as recently as yesterday. After today’s sermon though…….I really think he does believe what he’s trying to sell people. Which makes the situation even more unfortunate, in my opinion.


    April 20, 2008 at 3:36 am

  21. x-cog, we’re glad you’re here. You can breathe now! We hope more like you will see the light.


    April 20, 2008 at 3:39 am

  22. Very sad that the people are buying it. I have to say the guy can talk and turn around things to his favor. He has been putting money in over seas for years for the church, but i am afraid it won’t be for the church. It would be worth for him to take the money and go now. But i understand greed usually wants more greed. I am still shaking my head at how gullable i was. I was just looking for God in all the wrong places,


    April 20, 2008 at 3:41 am

  23. Thank you shadowsofwcg (whew, that is a mouth full. haha)
    I see the light very brightly now. Very brightly. It was so strange, to me it is like a dream now. Nice to not have a nut yell at you, belittle you, and tell one, we just don’t get it yet. That one needs alot of repent and praying to do.

    Wow, let me tell you. All i did was ask a question on something he did. I felt like a child being beaten down by an adult. Then i knew. I am history. Gone…

    Took awhile. but i am reall good now..


    April 20, 2008 at 3:56 am

  24. x-cog-pkg,

    I have family in there too. I sympathize completely with how you feel in that regard.


    April 20, 2008 at 4:09 am

  25. Constance:
    the thing is no matter what you do they believe in Ron and Laura. Even since he is proven wrong they look for every little thing to prove him right.
    Like the earthquake. I know about earthquakes a little at least but apparently i know more than Ron.


    April 20, 2008 at 4:27 am

  26. The negative effect this is having on people is truly sad. When I first read RW’s books it actually inspired me to make what I feel as a couple of positive changes in the way I live in showing respect to God, myself, and others.

    However, as I have continued following the developments of, or lack of, in his prophecies and listening to his sermons, it gets more confusing all the time. I can certainly understand how people get caught up in someone else’s delusions, in effect creating their own. I’ve learned from experience that there is no easy way out of it once it has a hold of you. I know that for myself I need to trust God how I “feel Him in me” and not how someone tells I should.

    Brian of the North

    April 20, 2008 at 7:23 am

  27. I agree with you, WW. He does believe what he’s preaching with every fiber of his being. In dealing with him, my husband and I were at a loss at first as to what his motivations were and if he was truly convinced of everything he was doing and preaching. We came away with a strong feeling that he was sickly sincere in everything he said.

    I am still hung up on the fact that they bought round trip tickets. I thought their work was in Jerusalem for the entire 3.5 years…


    April 20, 2008 at 11:37 am

  28. 3.5 years, the two witnesses are men, the earthquake was not a thunder, the lack of thunders before the seventh seal was opened (as was stated in the book), the lack of thunders after the seventh seal was opened.

    The sad part is not knowing exactly how many people have got caught up in what appear to be schizophrenic delusions.


    April 20, 2008 at 2:13 pm

  29. RW can’t make up his mind how swiftly to dispatch his critics. March 29 he said they would die “speedily”. Now he says “your death will not be quick”.


    April 20, 2008 at 5:10 pm

  30. I agree, he is preaching confusion & fear. He has destroyed the prophetic timelines of Daniel & Revelation as well as the role of the final 2 prophets.


    April 20, 2008 at 8:55 pm

  31. Here is a new article entitled, Can the God that Ronald Weinland Serves – Die? This may be of interest to some.

    Link removed because it is a terribly misspelled and ungrammatical plagiarism of the otherwise excellent article found here.

    Plagiarism will not be tolerated on WeinlandWatch. Thank you.


    April 21, 2008 at 4:38 am

  32. THIS GUY rw IS DANGEROUS AND HE NEEDS TO BE LOCKED UP………someone should do something to save those who have been and are being brainwashed.their lives will are being destroyed by this fanatic/charlatan!


    April 21, 2008 at 8:29 am

  33. I too have a family member involved. She is very, very young- just barely 18 (baptized when she was younger than that). It’s scary- and I wish she would just stop- but she sneaks sermons and contact w/ church people even though she isn’t supposed to. We’ve all tried to “talk her out of it”- but it is impossible- now I just don’t discuss it with her at all.


    April 21, 2008 at 1:44 pm

  34. DL, I am very sorry to hear that. Apparently she isn’t evening listening to her own church in that regard: There are now very strict rules on the church’s web site about underage teens that Weinland made a point to mention in the sermon shortly after they changed the site, and he did say that children were to be encouraged away from the church and back to their parents by the elders.

    Looks like the elder in your area may not be doing as he is told, either. I am very sorry, and I hope your family member comes to the realization of who/what Weinland really is sooner, rather than later.


    April 21, 2008 at 1:49 pm

  35. WW- she was baptized before Weinland changed the “rule”. Before all the Myspace pages went private- it was clear there were quite a few teenage followers that were baptized…


    April 21, 2008 at 3:19 pm

  36. Hmmm. That is interesting information. So are you saying it was an external rule only (just for outward public show), and that there are still children in the church??

    That is indeed disturbing news. 😦


    April 21, 2008 at 3:21 pm

  37. Unless my sister lied about her age, saying she was already 18 years old when she was baptized. On myspace there looks to be a lot of kids between 18-20 involved quite heavily w/ COG-PKG… scarily, a lot of them are already married with children!


    April 21, 2008 at 4:24 pm

  38. The same thing happened just prior to 1975; many young adults in WCG got married and had children because they felt they were never going to get the chance to.


    April 21, 2008 at 4:27 pm

  39. WW- that is just scary…. I was out with my sister one day and she was saying things like, “I just don’t understand what the big deal is with getting married so young, that’s what used to happen back in the day”, etc… I just couldn’t believe it was coming out of her mouth. So, I do some research on Myspace- look at her “friends”- and “friends of friends”- it’s so easy to tell who is COG-PKG as they all have each other as friends- and a lot of them are married with children. It’s disturbing.


    April 21, 2008 at 5:01 pm

  40. Thank you for this information, it is extremely important. This is definitely a sign that the church is engaging in two-tiered information: I.e., they are publicly saying that they do not encourage underage children, but internally the practice is still going on. I have added a post about it, with a link to an article by a former member of WCG who was a teenager in the church prior to 1975.

    I am disappointed. I had hoped that Weinland’s announcement meant a turning tide for the church’s indoctrination of young people, but it looks now as though it was purely a PR ploy to appease those questioning the church’s practice of recruiting the very young.


    April 21, 2008 at 5:13 pm

  41. actually… I have something else but not sure if I should share as a comment… what is your email?


    April 21, 2008 at 5:26 pm

  42. DL, Hi firs of all.
    I came to the conclusion that Rons people have there mind set. Nothing outside of his church will change their mindl They will have to see it for themselves. I have tried with my family but then they want to argue, then dad gets mad, so we just stop and don’t mention it. I still try to ask things but i get the same old brainwash stuff.
    Ron has broken up many families. God’s family is more important and he reminds us of that. Becuase what is to come they will be better off than with God’s church than the outside gang. I bought in to that for years. But i wouldn’t let them come between me and my family. OH trust me Ron tried. Not to leave them, but to let them know God’s church came first. I was stupid…. Called Ron’s mush….
    My brother still thinks Ron will have them drink kool aid, he is convinced, but i told him he wouldn’t do that. He yells and says, “how do you know that, Ron is a nut!!” Does anyone feel he could? Well in June my brother is going to pull my sister out of there. The others i don’t know. He wants to meet Ron so bad. He has a few things to say to him. Believe he will do that. Ron won’t beable to sit for months when my brother gets ahold of him. He is just scared for his sister. He is not a violent person, but he is still scared for sis. He said i should have never brought her into that. But i really didn’t know at the time. Shame on me i guess.


    April 24, 2008 at 5:04 am

  43. Does Ron have a my space DL?


    April 24, 2008 at 5:22 am

  44. No, the MySpace that has been set up is a fake, it is in response to Weinland’s diatribes against the evils of MySpace on March 15 (cont. here).

    The daughter’s MySpace page is still available however. Please note carefully the dog in the picture: This may be one of the five hundred dollar pooches they have allegedly been gifting loyal ministers’ families with.

    That’s right, CoG-PKG members: Your hard-earned tithe monies are going to waste on five-hundred-dollar DOGS.


    April 24, 2008 at 3:56 pm

  45. As for the Kool-Aid worries, perhaps Weinland himself might do something drastic. But clearly there is something going on “behind the scenes” at the church, that indicates some if not all of the ministry beside the Witless Weinlands are in it for the money. This indicates that they would NOT pull a Waco or Jonestown, because it would be counter-intuitive for them to destroy their only income source. Which is ALL the members are regarded as.


    April 24, 2008 at 3:59 pm

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