Weinland Watch

Weinland Watch

Ron, It’s Time

Journal Covers Dean Discipline (Ambassador Watch breaking news on latest UCG scandal)

Tkach Loses Round One: The Fight Continues! (Ambassador Reports on the WCG’s intervenor status in an Episcopalian land-claims court case)

Coming Soon: US & Britain in Prophecy (As Bereans Did—looking forward to this one!)

“The Church” vs. “The Hippies” (Armstrongism: Beware of False Prophets exegesis on an AC booklet)

What the F%#k is Going on Here? (I Survived Armstrongism survives a round of attacks from diehard Armstrongists from AW)

Here is What Tony Campolo Really Said (Post-WCG Life and Theology: Felix Taylor talks about controversial comments from a cussing christian—sounds like my kind of guy)

Science Gone Wrong (Ironwolf — Robert McNally discusses the latest XKCD comic strip)

Moral of these articles and posts? I commend to you the following three links:

Ron, It’s Time. (Shadows of WCG)

Ron, It’s Time. (Don’t Drink the Flavor-Aid)

Let My People Go!/Ron, It’s Time (As Bereans Did)

My turn.

Weinland. You tried. Whether you were drinking your own Kool-Aid, or just handing it out, you played your hand badly. You painted yourself into a corner, and now those who were not members of “the scattered church” who you managed to suck in, are coming after you with tar and feathers—and the threats of litigation. The world is not the way it used to be, twenty-five years ago, and neither is “the scattered church”.

Trying to recruit those who had no idea about “the scattered church” and what it really means, was a bad idea. Because there are enough of us left out here who know the real truth about WCG and HWA and all the other acronyms that only Worldwiders know the meaning of. Recruiting (and baptizing) underaged children was an even worse idea, as I’m certain your legal advisors made clear to you when you revamped the church’s website.

No one is going to give you any more “coverage” beyond this. Your faithful few might cling blindly to your spiritualizing of all the thunders and the seals and the signs, but surely some of them are going to remember “If by Pentecost…….” Even if you no longer remember it yourself.

It’s time Weinland. Give back the money, whatever you have left of it, and stop preaching. Just as you said you would. You are true to your word in these things. OK? That’s what you said. It’s time. You have to either eat these words, or own up to them, but you can’t just go blindly ahead as if you never said them:

Finally, getting out of CoG-Land, which sometimes seems like a parallel universe unto itself, I offer my loyal readers the following link:

News and World Events

It’s been a slice people. But it’s time to move on now.

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Written by weinlandwatch

May 6, 2008 at 1:52 pm

Posted in Weinland

28 Responses

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  1. AMEN!!! I couldn’t agree more.
    Now to go to some real news.
    Thank you though for all your hard work and for sharing your light with us!!! and to your other friend sites…

    x-cog-pkg

    May 6, 2008 at 2:37 pm

  2. Hello everyone. New day!!! beautiful as can be…

    Tulip

    May 6, 2008 at 3:01 pm

  3. It looks like Weinland’s MySpace page has disappeared. It comes up with the name Andy now and a generic page. I’m not sure what this means but I thought it was interesting.

    Brandon

    May 6, 2008 at 11:04 pm

  4. On a lighter note, I was wathcing the Simpsons today. The episode involved Homer comingi to the conclusion that he knows exactly when the Rapture will take place. He gathers the whole town to get on a bus and go to the top of a hill. Lisa begs him not to do it, saying that people have wrongly guessed the end of the world for centuries. Homer replies, “But honey, this is different. I have a really good feeling about this.”

    After his prophecy fails, Homer goes to his basement and starts to throw away all the books and charts that led him to his wrong conclusion. Just then, he realizes that there are actually 13 people in the Last Supper painting if you count Jesus. Of course, this means he was off by one day on his callculations. As he frantically tries to gather his family to return to the hill, Marge says, “You couldn’t predict six o’clock at five-thirty!”

    Hope the Witnesses were watching.

    Watcher

    May 6, 2008 at 11:40 pm

  5. This week Weinland will probably use the situation in Burma and the volcano in Chile to keep the flock in line.

    He reminds me of Hillary.She’s still begging for money as well.

    unconvinced

    May 7, 2008 at 5:31 am

  6. WW – Job well done on the RW reporting – Your site (and the others as well) were a great help to me when I was ‘caught up’ in the midst of all that confusion and especially when I realized I had been ‘duped’ – Thank You!!

    gracealso

    May 7, 2008 at 11:03 am

  7. Same bullshit, different decade.

    “When one person is delusional, it’s called insanity. When masses of people are delusional, it’s called religion.”

    Jon

    May 7, 2008 at 6:27 pm

  8. Thanks for that helpful input, Jon. I’m certain your well-timed and constructive comment will go a long way to benefiting people. If everything here on WW were to go away, its your comment right there I would deem the greatest loss.
    Or not.

    Constance_Dogood

    May 8, 2008 at 12:39 pm

  9. I agree with Jon, who was only quoting someone else (Dawkins or Hitchen?).

    Your comment was the one that was just a little judgemental in my opinion Constance.

    weinlandwatch

    May 8, 2008 at 1:28 pm

  10. When you agree with that, have you truly thought through what it is you’re agreeing with? Because you’re agreeing with hate speech.
    My comment may have been judgmental. I will not apologize about making a less than positive comment on that type of pointless verbal-violence. Atheism I can handle. Smug generalities and elitist epithets about the inherent superiority of atheism over the crazy Christians I need not abide.
    I don’t care who he was quoting. If I quote a former Grand Dragon of the KKK about the inherent inferiority of blacks from whites, does that excuse me because it wasn’t my idea, I was merely repeating something I heard? Not in the least. I would hope that you would never agree with THAT sort of comment. Then why this?
    I am more than happy to be intolerant about such a low, crass, unnecessary and frankly dangerous statement like that – no matter who it’s aimed at.

    Constance_DoGood

    May 8, 2008 at 3:25 pm

  11. I would like to add that if some professing “christian” had posted something so disgusting about you, I would like to think I would be among the first to defend you.

    Constance_DoGood

    May 8, 2008 at 3:36 pm

  12. I think we’re having a disagreement of semantics here. I have said often enough, and I still believe it, that there is a vast disconnect between spirituality and religion. Religion is “the church”, “the one true church” and all that that entails. That is what I think of, and what I thought of, when Jon posted the quote.

    Whatever spiritual beliefs you hold yourself, as long as you do no harm to yourself, or to others, more power to you. And every single person on earth has that same right. It’s when people start coming together in groups, led by men like Weinland (or Armstrong or Tkach or Meredith or any of the others), that the mass delusion becomes harmful. That is all that Jon meant by his comment, and that is how I took the comment.

    You chose to take the comment in an offensive manner. There’s nothing wrong with that; it just isn’t the way the comment was intended. As a matter of fact your taking offense to the comment makes it sound as though you are defending Weinland’s church!

    There is a difference between religion and spirituality. I do not believe religion is a good thing, and I have ample evidence to back me up. Whether or not religion is good for an individual, that goes on a case-by-case basis, and I would never presume to make that judgement; on an individual level.

    Jon’s comment was a generalization; maybe you took it a little too much to heart, I don’t know. But it wasn’t aimed directly at you, and neither was my agreeing with it. But I do agree with the comment, and it was NOT hate speech. I really don’t like your accusation that it was, either.

    I believe you are confusing free speech with hate speech. Just because you don’t like what someone else says, doesn’t mean you get to classify what it is. If you have a rational, reasonable rebuttal to Jon’s quote, by all means, let’s hear it. But Jon has every right to say what he wants, and I have every right to decide whether or not to keep the comment or delete it.

    weinlandwatch

    May 8, 2008 at 4:36 pm

  13. If that’s what Jon meant then Jon should have made that more clear. I saw no exception in that list. What I read appeared final and all-inclusive. And it was not aimed at religion but the people who practice it, since religion itself cannot be delusional. I believe that God hates religion. But to unequivocally blanket everyone who practices religion as insane is what I oppose. If it was a matter of semantics and I misunderstood, which I hold was more than an easy conclusion to come to, I am not above admitting my mistake if Jon were to point that out.

    But then you talking about rights and free speech, insinuating I believe Jon doesn’t have the right to say what he said. Point out for me the place where I said Jon doesn’t have such a right. I would just as doggedly defend Jon’s right to speech whether it offends me or not. However, if anyone wants to spit poisonous vitriol across a wide spectrum, aimed directly at me or otherwise, you can expect I will exercise my own right to stand opposed because eventually it gets on me.

    To clarify your worry that I defend Wineland’s church, I can say most certainly I do not. By this point I shouldn’t have to say that, it is self-evident. However, Ron Weinland has a legal right to his church just as much as Jon has a legal right to his speech. In both cases, I stand opposed to the content, not the basic right. And the people who follow him are not necessarily insane in my view but deceived.

    Constance_DoGood

    May 8, 2008 at 5:06 pm

  14. Deception is the state of MOST of the entire world, but the greater woe belongs to those doing the deceiving. Trust is a sacred thing. I watched as someone dear to me made expensive preparations and life changing business and location decisions due to trusting RW’s claims and predictions for April. Now they are devistated, deeply depressed, and next will come rage. The false RW’s of this world deserve what they have coming. No wonder scripture calls for stoning of false prophets!

    J Gibbs, PhD

    May 8, 2008 at 5:51 pm

  15. “And it was not aimed at religion but the people who practice it, since religion itself cannot be delusional.”

    On this we shall have to agree to disagree. Religion is delusional. Spirituality, if taken to extremes, can be self-delusional, but if approached skeptically, with an eye on the golden rule, is not always so. This is where I think the semantics of the conversation are breaking down. Mass religion (religion for the masses) can and is delusional.

    Let me put it to you this way: I do not, personally, see you as a “religious” person. Why? Because you aren’t posting comments to the effect that we’re all liars, and Armstrong was god, etc., etc. You are a spiritual person, in that you hold personal beliefs that are different from many ex-members’, and different from many of those here. That is not to say that you, personally, are insane.

    It is the institution of religion that is insane, in my opinion, and I believe that was all Jon’s point was.

    Agree to disagree, shake hands, and part ways peaceably you two, you will not have a venue for argument here.

    “And the people who follow him are not necessarily insane in my view but deceived.”

    I don’t know. I wasn’t all that sane while I was in WCG. Brainwashing can be its own form of psychosis sometimes, I think. 😦

    weinlandwatch

    May 8, 2008 at 6:00 pm

  16. It seems RW is back on the trail, for he has a new posting on his webpage. It continues….for now.

    J Gibbs, PhD

    May 8, 2008 at 6:07 pm

  17. Mike, from Don’t Drink the Flavor-Aid has a posting about it.

    weinlandwatch

    May 8, 2008 at 6:20 pm

  18. i don’t deserve your praise, but hank you for not thinking I’m insane. (I may be crazy, but not because of my faith.) The heart of the statement I agree with. Religion can be a bad thing. I try to avoid that, personally.

    But I am an advocate for people of faith, and not a person who takes it lightly that the very ones I love might misunderstand that people who post here agree that they’re nuts. I agree to disagree with you on this.

    Maybe I came off a bit strong. I will attempt to make my point more gently in the future.

    Constance_DoGood

    May 8, 2008 at 6:40 pm

  19. But I don’t think Weinland’s followers are insane. Neither are all people “of faith” insane. I don’t agree with that at all. The institution of religion is insane however, and that opinion I will stand by.

    Religion is not spirituality. People of faith may simply be spiritual believers, as long as they are not oppressed and repressed by one particular religion (that sets itself up as “the one true church”). But when they are trapped, in a PKG or a PCG or an LCG or an RCG, then yes, that is insane. Still not the followers’ fault: They were probably recruited when they were at their lowest point.

    Or, for those of us who were children of the church before it was “the scattered church”, we had no free choice at all, it was all we were ever taught or ever knew.

    weinlandwatch

    May 8, 2008 at 6:53 pm

  20. What I see in your response, WW, is a desperate desire to help people to avoid the pain you experienced. That is one reason why I like you so much. I want to help people too. I am not against you. But Jon’s statement causes pain. And even if I misunderstood, or even if I chose to be offended, I would much prefer a world where people take greater care of how they use the weapon that is their tongue (or their keyboard in this case).

    Constance_DoGood

    May 8, 2008 at 7:21 pm

  21. “I would much prefer a world where people take greater care of how they use the weapon that is their tongue (or their keyboard in this case).”

    That really would be a perfect world wouldn’t it? Unfortunately, we don’t live in a perfect world. Then again, maybe that’s the point.

    After all, if we all walked around with harps and halos being perfect to one another, it would be an extremely boring place wouldn’t it? 😉

    weinlandwatch

    May 8, 2008 at 7:41 pm

  22. OK. I apologize to you Jon if I snapped at you hastily. What you said was probably not what I took it as. I will cross your name off my “people to kill” list.

    Constance_DoGood

    May 8, 2008 at 8:18 pm

  23. LOL! That reminds me of that X-Files episode where the Monster of the Week was helping people get rid of their enemies, going “down the list” as it were.

    Mulder: Who are the ten people on your list Scully?

    Scully: Only ten?

    (I think it was ten. It has been many years and I may be misremembering the quote.)

    😀

    weinlandwatch

    May 8, 2008 at 8:23 pm

  24. We must remember what ww. was suppose to be all about people. To help. If we hate it will only push those members closer to Ron. Trust me, i was in there. One thing we can’t do is put ourselves at Ron’s level.
    Jon, when WW. wrote on the blog to move on to other things, i think that was a good idea. Him and others wrote what they did to help and open eyes to those still in and the ones like me who needed to see those things written to get over it.
    We don’t know who is insane or sane. Sometimes i feel like a nut and sometimes i don’t.
    We know what Ron’s saying is all wrong and he is fake. But i know how those people still in are feeling. Ron makes one think we are lost without him. I know the members and they a good people. I am a christian and i always believed let people do their own religion it is their choice. Just like athiest. My sons are athiest (well they say that) but they have more love for people that i have ever seen. They never talk hate, or put any one down., They truly are better than myself when it comes to that. I look up to them on alot of things.
    No i don’t have or belong to a church, but for those who do i say if it brings you happiness than that is wonderful. Myself i am not churchy, but i am religous and a strong believer.
    I hope you all know i am just saying all of this out of love.
    Like ww. said, it is a waste of time writing anymore about Ron, now is the time to put it to sleep for awhile.
    Sorry ww. these weren’t your exact words but close enough, eh??

    Tulip

    May 8, 2008 at 9:28 pm

  25. OK is anyone up to answering this really i mean really dumb question?

    Cyclone: Would that be a combination of hurricane/tornado?

    Have a bet riding on this one…

    Tulip

    May 8, 2008 at 9:36 pm

  26. Cyclone.

    “In meteorology, a cyclone is an area of low atmospheric pressure characterized by inward spiraling winds that rotate counter clockwise in the northern hemisphere and clockwise in the southern hemisphere of the Earth. The generic term covers a wide variety of meteorological phenomena. These include tropical cyclones and extratropical cyclones, so meteorologists rarely use “cyclone” without additional qualification.

    “A tropical cyclone is a storm system fueled by the heat released when moist air rises and the water vapor in it condenses. The term describes the storm’s origin in the tropics and its cyclonic nature, which means that its circulation is counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere and clockwise in the southern hemisphere. Tropical cyclones are distinguished from other cyclonic windstorms such as nor’easters, European windstorms, and polar lows by the heat mechanism that fuels them, which makes them “warm core” storm systems.

    Depending on their location and strength, there are various terms by which tropical cyclones are known, such as hurricane, typhoon, tropical storm, cyclonic storm and tropical depression.

    “Tropical cyclones can produce extremely strong winds, tornadoes, torrential rain, high waves, and storm surges. The heavy rains and storm surges can produce extensive flooding. Although their effects on human populations can be devastating, tropical cyclones also can have beneficial effects by relieving drought conditions. They carry heat away from the tropics, an important mechanism of the global atmospheric circulation that maintains equilibrium in the Earth’s troposphere.

    Oh, and I know you know this already Tulip, but a cyclone is definitely not a thunder. 😀

    weinlandwatch

    May 9, 2008 at 1:41 am

  27. haha!! you know that for sure! No thunder there. Now if it was in the USA, then oh oh!!
    Me thinks we would be in trouble. hehe
    I was in N.O. for Katrina. Only had about 8 hours there before it happened. Even know i look back and even though we barely got out, that is no thunder compared to what the other parts of the world have gone through with storms. I am not putting it in a light catagory, don’t get me wrong. It was a very scary situation. And alot of people were left homeless. But we have things all the time and will always have them. I believe that to be just how the world is and always has been. No predictions needed for that. Do you agree?
    Like how you explained how these things happen.

    By the way the only things we were able to bring back were broken beads on the ground from Katrina. We never got to see anything but the aftermath.

    Boy alot on the cyclone!! Thanks for the detail description. Didn’t mean for you to go throuh so much work. But it is appeciated.

    TULIP

    May 9, 2008 at 3:56 am

  28. Barnum and Bailey of Circus fame once said ….
    “Theres a sucker born every minuit”
    and you can be sure R.W. knows this very well.

    What can you say about a preacher who bad mouths every christian religion and wants to set his own up as the only true way to God….We must be all doomed….
    John

    JOHN MURRAY

    May 30, 2008 at 5:49 pm


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